It's Libyan for "thank you"

[kentonio]

Just to be clear btw, none of this excuses what happened at the embassies, but lets not pretend they don't have reasons for hating the west.

[rah]

So by your own arguments, actions like this give us reason for hating them? So the killings can continue.
This is the type of thinking that will never lead to a peaceful solution.
Not directed at you, but sometimes it seems the west is trying to do more towards breaking the cycle.

[Jaguar]

Is that a serious comment. I've always found that argument rather vacuous.

In small part, yes. Consider that the rah-rah-Dubya answer is actually literally true, according to the stated agenda of the people who attacked the embassy. They literally wanted America to shut down the movie. They said so!

Mostly, though, it's a troll. Because in truth the stated agenda is probably not an accurate window into their beliefs.

[kentonio]

So by your own arguments, actions like this give us reason for hating them? So the killings can continue.
This is the type of thinking that will never lead to a peaceful solution.
Not directed at you, but sometimes it seems the west is trying to do more towards breaking the cycle.

Of course it'll make more people in the west hate them for it. I'm not in any way saying any of this is a good thing, but it's pointless to pretend that it isn't the truth. This isn't about any solutions, it's just about accepting the reality of the situation so maybe eventually someone can find a solution.

[Felch]

Is that a serious comment. I've always found that argument rather vacuous.

Not the century of using their countries as pawns? Between Britain and the USA we're done some deeply despicable things to that part of the world right up until the present day. The US funded dictatorships that tortured, oppressed and murdered their citizens. Why wouldn't they be pissed off?

The proximate cause was an offensive movie. If people kill Americans over an offensive movie, then it's fair to say that they hate our freedoms. If they had their way, we wouldn't be free to make the movies we want to make.

[kentonio]

The proximate cause was an offensive movie. If people kill Americans over an offensive movie, then it's fair to say that they hate our freedoms. If they had their way, we wouldn't be free to make the movies we want to make.

It does seem however that they mostly only care when those freedoms are used to insult and denigrate things they care about as much as you care about your freedoms.

[rah]

Then at least have them have seen the movie before they riot.
It was like watching them cheer after 9/11.

[kentonio]

Then at least have them have seen the movie before they riot.
It was like watching them cheer after 9/11.

Who? The Libyans or the Egyptians?

[Hauldren Collider]

I seem to recall it mainly being Palestinians and Pakistanis who celebrated. But I wouldn't be surprised if Libyans and Egyptians did too.

[Hauldren Collider]

Just to be clear btw, none of this excuses what happened at the embassies, but lets not pretend they don't have reasons for hating the west.

When did the US use them as pawns? This is YOUR imperial legacy, not ours. I'll give you half credit for Iran, where we sort of teamed up.

[rah]

Religious, I don't really differentiate based on country since it seemed to be happened in a lot of countries.

[kentonio]

I seem to recall it mainly being Palestinians and Pakistanis who celebrated. But I wouldn't be surprised if Libyans and Egyptians did too.

Pakistanis? Would you like to back that up with any evidence?

Religious, I don't really differentiate based on country since it seemed to be happened in a lot of countries.

Except that it didn't.

Most Muslim political and religious leaders condemned the attacks. The leaders vehemently denouncing the attacks included the Presidents of Egypt, Jordan, the Palestinian Authority, Libya, Syria, Iran and Pakistan.[5][16] The sole exception was Iraq, when the then-president Saddam Hussein, said of the attacks that "the American cowboys are reaping the fruit of their crimes against humanity".[17] Saddam would later offer sympathy to the Americans killed in the attacks.[18]

Leader of Palestine Yasser Arafat strongly condemned the attacks and stated that he was "disgusted by such violent acts" and that in no way did they receive the support of the Palestinian people.[citation needed]

Renowned Muslim scholar Yusuf al-Qaradawi denounced the attacks and the unprovoked killings of thousands of American civilians as a "heinous crime" and urged Muslims to donate blood to the victims. He did, however, criticize the United States' "biased policy towards Israel" and also called on Muslims to "concentrate on facing the occupying enemy directly", inside the Palestinian territories.[19] The alleged Hezbollah "spiritual mentor" and Lebanese Shia cleric Mohammed Hussein Fadlallah condemned the attacks.

Ahmed Yassin, the spiritual leader of Hamas, said he was not interested in exporting such attacks to the United States, however he criticized the "unfair American position".[20]

Afghanistan's Taliban rulers condemned the attacks and also vehemently rejected suggestions that Osama bin Laden, who had been given asylum in Afghanistan, could be behind them.[20]

Huge crowds attended candlelit vigils in Iran, and 60,000 spectators observed a minute's silence at Tehran football stadium.

It happened in one place, Palestine, and even there the PNA condemned it.

A number of Palestinians danced in the street in celebration of the attacks on the World Trade Center and the deaths of Americans. Fox News reported that in Ein el-Hilweh, Lebanon's largest Palestinian refugee camp, revelers fired weapons in the air, with similar celebratory gunfire heard at the Rashidiyeh camp near the southern city of Tyre as well.[20] The Palestinian National Authority (PNA) condemned the attacks and attempted to censure and discredit broadcasts and other news reports.[20] with many newspapers, magazines, Web sites and wire services running photographs.[25][26] The PNA claimed such celebrations were not representative of the sentiments of the Palestinian people, and the Information Minister Yasser Abed Rabbo said the PNA would not allow "a few kids" to "smear the real face of the Palestinians". In an attempt to quash further reporting, Ahmed Abdel Rahman, Arafat's Cabinet secretary, said the Palestinian Authority could not "guarantee the life" of an Associated Press (AP) cameraman if footage he filmed of post-9/11 celebrations in Nablus was broadcast. Rahman's statement prompted a formal protest from the AP bureau chief, Dan Perry.[27][26]

Annette Krüger Spitta of the ARD's (German public broadcasting) TV magazine Panorama states that footage not aired shows that the street surrounding the celebration in Jerusalem is quiet. Furthermore, she states that a man in a white T-shirt incited the children and gathered people together for the shot. The Panorama report, dated September 20, 2001, quotes Communications Professor Martin Löffelholz explaining that in the images one sees jubilant Palestinian children and several adults but there is no indication that their pleasure is related to the attack. The woman seen cheering (Nawal Abdel Fatah) stated afterwards that she was offered cake if she celebrated on camera, and was frightened when she saw the pictures on television afterward.

[regexcellent]

Palestinian Pakistanis??! WTF?!

WTF indeed. When did he say that?

[regexcellent]

Oh god, compound DanS.

[Dinner]

Watching Romney go half cocked on this issue and then get beaten down like a street mutt has been fun. He know looks gun shy. Still, it shows how desperate the man has become. He's heading for a defeat and he knows it so he's flailing around looking for absolutely anything to attack on even if doing so makes him look like an ass and makes his poll numbers fall even more.

Nate Silver has the chances of a Romney victory now down to just 20% and falling.