Fight against so-called voter "fraud" unwittingly targets legitimate voters.

[Dr Strangelove]

This is an argument for making it easier to vote. Essentially, we have de facto disenfranchisement because the act of voting itself is sometimes hard. Yes, you can argue that maybe lazy people shouldn't be voting anyway, or something like that, but we shouldn't be making those sorts of judgments if we want to claim to have universal suffrage. .

By lazy people we're essentially referring to late-middle aged and senior people with obesity, diabetes, hypertension, arthritis and COPD who can't walk 4 to 5 miles in hilly country without having an ambulance on standby. Oh, and let's not forget limited education because the late Reverend, the one who claimed to have made Ronald Reagan president, convinced their county governments to shut down their public schools when they were kids.

You have to remember that most of the US is not as densely populated as the major eastern cities or Europe. If you made the Department of Motor Vehicles office the place to get national ID in Central Virginia that would be a 50 mile trip one way for some people in the area. Buses serve inner Lynchburg. Even in the city there are many places that are more than 2 miles from a bus stop, 2 hilly miles.

[kentonio]

If fraud exists, and it certainly does, and it isn't being detected or investigated, and it certainly is not, then we are all being disenfranchised.

What a perfect example of circular reasoning.

[Wezil]

You've alredy posted evidence of fraud. I presume it's the middle part you have trouble with?

[Wezil]

I already posted a link of what we found when we "investigated" here. It was ugly.

[Felch]

What a perfect example of circular reasoning.

It's not circular at all. There is fraud, but it is almost entirely undetected and ignored. Back in the day, wife beaters often weren't investigated, but that doesn't mean it never happened. Rapes are often unreported, but they happen. Just because crime is invisible, doesn't mean it isn't happening.

[Lorizael]

How is voter fraud detected and investigated? If it isn't detectable, and it isn't investigated, how certain are we that it is or isn't happening? Why not put into place rules that make it easier to detect voting fraud?

If fraud exists, and it certainly does, and it isn't being detected or investigated, and it certainly is not, then we are all being disenfranchised.

We know that political machines are crooked as hell. It's absurd to believe that someone like Mayor Gray would run a proxy candidate like Sulaimon Brown, engage in finance shenanigans, and not have some of his friends vote on behalf of the recently deceased. Without any sort of mechanism to detect it though, it's all invisible.

I'm not arguing that fraud doesn't exist. My question is whether the fraud is worse than the potential disenfranchisement of voter ID laws. We don't know the answer to that question, and the evidence available at the moment is not conclusive.

Off course, this is really small potatoes stuff. We need to reform the entire political system, starting with the gerrymandering and first past the post elections. If it were a choice between IDs and ending gerrymandering, I'd go with gerrymandering.

Indeed.

[Tupac Shakur]

Why aren't you ***** *****ing about the fascist voting laws in Canada?

Federal elections

In Canada to vote, one must prove their identity and address. A voter has three options:

(1) Show one original piece of identification with photo, name and address like a driver's licence or an health card. It must be issued by a government agency.

(2) Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have a address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.

(3) Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of which will be required to make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws

Seriously, all of you whinging about voter ID laws in this thread should kill yourself for the good of society.

[Wezil]

Our rules aren't strict enough nor well enforced.

[Tupac Shakur]

At least you have rules.

[Dr Strangelove]

Because of Texas’s history of discrimination, the voter-ID law signed last year by its Republican governor, Rick Perry, had to be cleared by the Justice Department.

Is Texas still in "Reconstruction"? What a great idea!

[giblets]

Is Texas still in "Reconstruction"? What a great idea!

No, it's still under the 1965 Voting Rights Act.

[Dr Strangelove]

No, it's still under the 1965 Vomiting Rights Act.

Fixed.......for Texans.

[Zevico]

Why wasn't voter fraud such a huge, publicized issue in the media before 2008? Oh yeah - because before 2008, we didn't have a black/mixed race president and so back then, racist political leaders did not have to come up with.

The correct answer is "because it wasn't newsworthy." More precisely, it did not fit the narrative propounded by the American media elite and it was therefore not appropriate to display it to the public. Hence, the New Black Panthers intimidation case wasn't newsworthy and voter fraud against blacks in the South by blacks was not newsworthy. This is much for the same reason as black on black violence is not newsworthy. It's the bigotry of low expectations.

[Fake Boris]

Why aren't you ***** *****ing about the fascist voting laws in Canada?

Federal elections

In Canada to vote, one must prove their identity and address. A voter has three options:

(1) Show one original piece of identification with photo, name and address like a driver's licence or an health card. It must be issued by a government agency.

(2) Show two original pieces of authorized identification. Both pieces must have a name and one must also have a address. Examples: student ID card, birth certificate, public transportation card, utility bill, bank/credit card statement, etc.

(3) Take an oath and have an elector who knows the voter vouch for them (both of which will be required to make a sworn statement). This person must have authorized identification and their name must appear on the list of electors in the same polling division as the voter. This person can only vouch for one person and the person who is vouched for cannot vouch for another elector.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_ID_laws

Seriously, all of you whinging about voter ID laws in this thread should kill yourself for the good of society.

Key here is health card. Everyone has it, it's for public health care.

[Wezil]

My health card doesn't have a photo.