All voters are given an ID when they register in the form of their registration ID. Why is that not enough?
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Fight against so-called voter "fraud" unwittingly targets legitimate voters.
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Originally posted by DaShi View PostUnfortunately, this is not the case at all. Photo IDs do disenfranchise minorities and don't reduce voter fraud. It's becoming obvious that those supporting them don't care about equal rights or even freedom. They just care about getting the guy from their party in office, even if he is against their values as well. Simply ridiculous.
To clarify: To me this isn't a partisan issue."I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
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Originally posted by Wezil View PostThis is the sort of **** that happens when elections are not tightly controlled:
Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj is not waiting for the Supreme Court's decision before firing another volley in his battle over last year's election in Etobicoke Centre.
The court is expected to rule next week on whether Tory MP Ted Opitz can keep the seat which he won by just 26 votes. Either way, though, Wrzesnewskyj says "difficult questions" surround what he calls "problematic" new evidence presented to the court at the last minute by Elections Canada.
The former Liberal MP alleges that the agency failed to mention relevant facts which should have been disclosed to the justices. For example, he says, Elections Canada argued that many voters whose ballots were rejected by the lower court because of missing paperwork were really valid, because their names had since turned up on the voters' list.
What wasn't mentioned, Wrzesnewskyj says, was that nearly half of these were on the list in other ridings — not in Etobicoke Centre.
In April, Wrzesnewskyj persuaded Judge Thomas Lederer of the Ontario Superior Court to throw out the election results because of 79 ballots which he ruled invalid. In many cases, Judge Lederer found that registration certificates, by which voters get added to the list of qualified electors, were missing or never existed.
Opitz appealed the ruling to the Supreme Court, which came back from its summer recess to hear the case. That's when Elections Canada claimed to have found "new evidence" that 44 "invalid" ballots were, in fact, cast by valid voters, even though their registration certificates could not be found.
The justices did not indicate whether it would even consider this new evidence — and Wrzesnewskyj's lawyers urged them not to. However, Wrzesnewskyj says his side didn't have time to fully examine Elections Canada's submission and to discover some revealing details.
In particular, he points to one voter whose name was quietly dropped, without explanation, from Elections Canada's list of newly-discovered "valid" voters. That, he suspects, is because the same name occurs twice among those who cast ballots.
"We've since found that one individual slipped off the list and it appears that person voted twice," says Wrzesnewskyj.
That should have been disclosed, he says — although, in a second case, it was: a small footnote on the Elections Canada's chart concedes that two other names also appear to be the same person.
Wrzesnewskyj finds it even stranger that, in the very same polling station, Elections Canada provided 26 names of voters whose names had been "found" on the voters' list. On closer examination, 17 of those 26 names are actually registered in other ridings — as far from Etobicoke as Niagara Falls and Jonquière, Que. That means they could not have cast valid votes in Etobicoke.
Besides that, says Wrzesnewskyj, Elections Canada seems to have "found" all these names by trying multiple different spellings, sometimes changing several letters before finding a match.
That, at least, does seem to have been disclosed to the Supreme Court — if the justices can read it. In very small letters, a note appears next to eight names, saying, "Handwriting difficult to make out. Many iterations of name were tried."
What the court did not hear is that some of these alternative spellings produced a match with the voters' list only after a bit of a stretch.
In one case, the handwritten initials in the Etobicoke poll records look like "C" and "S." The match that Elections Canada says it found on the voters' list has the initials "Q"and "J." A second surname had five letters beginning with an "R" — but, in the match allegedly found, all but one letter was different and it began with an "L."
For Wrzesnewskyj, all this calls into question the credibility of Elections Canada's "new evidence" — although he stops short of accusing the agency of trying to hoodwink the Supreme Court.
"I'd hate to think that would even be possible in Canada," he says. "What we do know is that there are very difficult questions that need to be answered about this last-minute evidence."
That is, if it matters. Even if the Supreme Court were to reinstate all 44 votes on Elections Canada's list, that would still leave 35 other votes ruled invalid by the lower court. That's nine more than the 26-vote margin which gave Opitz his seat.
Liberal Borys Wrzesnewskyj says "difficult questions" surround what he calls "problematic" new evidence presented to the Supreme Court at the last minute by Elections Canada in his court battle over last year's election in Etobicoke Centre.
It's only a handful of votes. Perhaps we shouldn't worry about it?“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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Originally posted by DaShi View PostAll voters are given an ID when they register in the form of their registration ID. Why is that not enough?
Can that be given to someone else to take to the polling station (to vote in your place)?"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
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Originally posted by Wezil View PostBreakfast is a partisan issue in the US.
To clarify: To me this isn't a partisan issue.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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Originally posted by Wezil View PostOur system differs so help me out...
Can that be given to someone else to take to the polling station (to vote in your place)?“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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Of course, the easiest way to prevent voter fraud is simply to not let anyone vote.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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Originally posted by DaShi View PostI thought you wanted studies (see my links above) not just single events confirming what you want to believe.
Hell, going to the polls is a pain in the ass that must certainly "disenfranchise" millions of people. Why can't we all just stay home and mail/email our ballots?"I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
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Originally posted by DaShi View PostThen why are you not arguing from the side of evidence and facts?
We have some evidence and facts of voter fraud.
I support a solution/deterrent that I think is reasonable."I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
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Originally posted by Wezil View PostNo, I appreciate studies and all but I am really curious to hear a real story of a real voter (has voted in past and wanted to in future) that will not be able to vote next timeout. I want to hear the circumstances that lead to such a situation because I really am finding it hard to believe this is an onerous requirement.
Hell, going to the polls is a pain in the ass that must certainly "disenfranchise" millions of people. Why can't we all just stay home and mail/email our ballots?
Onerous requirements are relative. Evidence is on the side that voter IDs are onerous for minority groups. Why should they be singled out? Let's put all the polling stations in ghettos and have them only open after sundown.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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Originally posted by Wezil View PostI am.
We have some evidence and facts of voter fraud.
Also, you change your stance more than Ben:
I want an anecdote to convince me.
No, now I want evidence and facts.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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I'm not doing your work for you.
The claim has reached as high as "millions". I simply ask for one."I have never killed a man, but I have read many obituaries with great pleasure." - Clarence Darrow
"I didn't attend the funeral, but I sent a nice letter saying I approved of it." - Mark Twain
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No, I'm not doing your work for you. You know what you want. Go find it. I'm not playing guessing games with you for what the magic fact is that will convince you.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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Originally posted by Wezil View PostThe claim has reached as high as "millions". I simply ask for one.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
"Capitalism ho!"
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