Dark Knight Rises

[Dr Strangelove]

America responds appropriately to the latest tragedy:

Gun sales in Colorado have spiked since last week's massacre, The Denver Post reports.

Background checks jumped more than 41 percent since Friday's shooting that left 12 dead and 58 injured during a midnight screening of "The Dark Knight Rises" at an Aurora movie theater. Over the weekend, the Colorado Bureau of Investigation approved background checks for 2,887 people who wanted to purchase a firearm, the Post said, an increase of 43 percent over the previous weekend.

"It's been insane," Jake Meyers, an employee at Rocky Mountain Guns and Ammo in Parker, Colo., told the paper.

Spikes in gun sales are not uncommon in the aftermath of mass shootings like the one in Colorado. Following the January 2011 shooting that killed six and wounded more than a dozen others—including former Arizona Rep. Gabrielle Giffords—in Tucson, sales of handguns soared more than 60 percent in the state, according to FBI data. Similar spikes were seen after the massacres at Virginia Tech and Columbine.

Some of those seeking to buy guns in Colorado over the weekend said they were seeking to arm themselves for protection in the wake of the shooting, according to the report. But many were likely fearful of a change in gun laws. Democratic state Rep. Rhonda Fields of Aurora told the paper she wants Congress to reinstate a ban on assault weapons.

"When something like this happens people get worried that the government is going to ban stuff," Greg Wolff, an Arizona gun shop owner, told Bloomberg.com after the rampage in Tucson.

They also get worried when a Democrat is about to take office. Before President Barack Obama's 2008 election, there was a spike in gun sales, and gun shop owners and manufacturers have reported similarly brisk buying in 2012.

"It's definitely the election year," Jason Hanson, a former CIA officer, told Fox News in March. "People feel that Obama will serve second term and with it their gun rights with taken away, so they are stocking up."


In December, the FBI reported a record number of background checks—1,534,414—sent by gun dealers. "Almost half a million checks were done in just the last six days before Christmas," according to CNN. In 2010, the FBI's National Instant Criminal Background Check System received more than 14 million requests, more than in any other year.

James Holmes, the suspected shooter in Friday's massacre, was found with a military-style AR-15 assault rifle, two Glock .40-caliber pistols and a Remington 12-gauge shotgun when he was arrested outside the theater in Aurora. And like Jared Loughner, the accused killer in the Tucson massacre, Holmes purchased the guns legally.

[DinoDoc]

You were scooped by Albie. :sad:

[Asher]

It truly would've been a cluster****.

The cops almost thought the shooter was a SWAT member. In the darkness and chaos, how do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad? **** it, just shoot?

[Uncle Sparky]

But there's more - many movie theatres have banned people attending in costume. The obvious and correct response. I remember going to the Rocky Horror Picture Show, where everyone was in costume. This was the result -


Anyone remember the Black Adder the Third episode "Sense and Senility" where Hugh Laurie as the Prince shouted, "Look behind you, Mr. Caesar!" during the assassination scene? If only the audience all had guns - Caesar would still be alive!

[The Mad Monk]

It truly would've been a cluster****.

The cops almost thought the shooter was a SWAT member. In the darkness and chaos, how do you know who is the good guy and who is the bad? **** it, just shoot?

If he's walking down the aisle spraying everything, he's probably the bad guy.

[Asher]

I thought there were smoke bombs and the lights were out?

Further, even if you do identify the guy looking like a SWAT member as the bad guy, how many of these people are going to shoot with 100% accuracy given the panic, smoke, darkness, and people shoving and diving everywhere?

More guns on that scene would've made the death toll much higher.

[MOBIUS]

America really is my favourite country - but for all the wrong reasons!

[The Mad Monk]

He was lit by the movie projector and the flash of his own weapon.

[Dr Strangelove]

Hague convention military rounds do signinifcantly less damage then hunting rounds designed to mushroom on impact.

The Hague Convention originally specified steel jacketed bullets. I remember "back in the day" when my older brother collected military rifles (bought mail order dirt-cheap), the bullets all had that nice steel sheen. Look at the rounds above, they're all copper-jacketed. Armies switched to copper-jacketing when they made assault rifles the standard issue because copper-jacketed bullets produce less wear on the lining of the guns' barrels. Copper jacketed bullets however shatter and mushroom much more easily than steel jacketed bullets.. The fact is that no country complies with the Hague Convention anymore.

[Wiglaf]

I thought there were smoke bombs and the lights were out?

Further, even if you do identify the guy looking like a SWAT member as the bad guy, how many of these people are going to shoot with 100% accuracy given the panic, smoke, darkness, and people shoving and diving everywhere?

More guns on that scene would've made the death toll much higher.

If 2 people in the theater had guns of a reasonable caliber, and both stood up and shot at him at the same time, what's the maximum number of collateral hits? 2? 3?

Also, anyone who buys a game called Kingdoms of Amalur is a ******.

[Hauldren Collider]

A much more salient point is that the theater banned weapons inside the building, which strangely enough did not discourage the perpetrator in the slightest.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

The Hague Convention originally specified steel jacketed bullets. I remember "back in the day" when my older brother collected military rifles (bought mail order dirt-cheap), the bullets all had that nice steel sheen. Look at the rounds above, they're all copper-jacketed. Armies switched to copper-jacketing when they made assault rifles the standard issue because copper-jacketed bullets produce less wear on the lining of the guns' barrels. Copper jacketed bullets however shatter and mushroom much more easily than steel jacketed bullets.. The fact is that no country complies with the Hague Convention anymore.

Lead still mushrooms better than copper jacket.

[Donegeal]

Wiggy, imagine you're in a dark movie theater when a smoke bomb goes off. Then someone shoots and screaming starts. All of a sudden, another person opens fire in a different part of the theater. Who's the bad guy shooting people? Is he alone? Id the other guy shooting also a bad guy? What happens when you, out of fear, shoot in the direction of the first shooter? Note I say in the direction, not shoot at, as with people screaming and diving and trying to get out of the theater, aiming is an impossibility. Now the guy who shot second, he notices that you shot (but does not know the direction you shot) and in the confusion, thinks you and the original shooter are both bad guys. He starts blasting away at you. You start blasting away at him. The original shooter starts blasting away at the both of you. You all unload at each other, firing wildly in a dark crowded paniced smoke filled movie theater. There is no way the death toll doesn't skyrocket in this situation, and both of the people who were trying to 'save the day' would most likely be included in that number.

[Asher]

Wiggy, imagine you're in a dark movie theater when a smoke bomb goes off. Then someone shoots and screaming starts. All of a sudden, another person opens fire in a different part of the theater. Who's the bad guy shooting people? Is he alone? Id the other guy shooting also a bad guy? What happens when you, out of fear, shoot in the direction of the first shooter? Note I say in the direction, not shoot at, as with people screaming and diving and trying to get out of the theater, aiming is an impossibility. Now the guy who shot second, he notices that you shot (but does not know the direction you shot) and in the confusion, thinks you and the original shooter are both bad guys. He starts blasting away at you. You start blasting away at him. The original shooter starts blasting away at the both of you. You all unload at each other, firing wildly in a dark crowded paniced smoke filled movie theater. There is no way the death toll doesn't skyrocket in this situation, and both of the people who were trying to 'save the day' would most likely be included in that number.

Precisely.

[Felch]

The Hague Convention originally specified steel jacketed bullets. I remember "back in the day" when my older brother collected military rifles (bought mail order dirt-cheap), the bullets all had that nice steel sheen. Look at the rounds above, they're all copper-jacketed. Armies switched to copper-jacketing when they made assault rifles the standard issue because copper-jacketed bullets produce less wear on the lining of the guns' barrels. Copper jacketed bullets however shatter and mushroom much more easily than steel jacketed bullets.. The fact is that no country complies with the Hague Convention anymore.

The Hague Convention says, "The Contracting Parties agree to abstain from the use of bullets which expand or flatten easily in the human body, such as bullets with a hard envelope which does not entirely cover the core, or is pierced with incisions." No mention of steel jacketing.

Copper jacketing dates back to the late 19th century. Earlier steel looking jackets were probably copper-nickel alloys, until 1922 when they added tin for strength. Copper plated steel jackets came later, during WWII, in an effort to stretch out copper supplies.

Steel jackets are cheaper, but put more wear and tear on the rifle bore. You can still buy ammo with steel jackets, usually from third rate Russian manufacturers like Wolf or Bear. They all say, "Bi metal jacketed bullet that will attract a magnet," because they use steel instead of just copper. It has nothing to do with bullet expansion though. It's all about cutting costs.