Obama caught being a smarmy douchebag?

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Chicken and egg. But it was people that provided all,

Not quite, it was the economic interactions of people (either as individuals, pooled groups, or sometimes even governmental entities that parasitically extracted capital )

not the free market -- people working together toward common goals.

Common goals as in mutually beneficial trade arrangements between various parties. By definition a common goal is not common if one of the parties is compelled to action(s) (or prevented from participating).

One of the ways in which people can work together manifests itself as the free market; another way is government.

Where as one emphasizes the mutually benificial nature of entering into an agreement and the other sometimes does so but as often as not resorts to compelling an arrangement.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Colonialism, feudalism, etc etc are decidedly non free market and yet there were businesses and merchants and taxes. Free markets are not a precursor to all economic activity or governmental authority.

Missing the larger point. Regardless of the economic system capitalism, fuedalism, etc. where did the governemental resources derive from, the economic interactions of the people and a portion thereof.

However in the context of the Friedman discussion he was in fact speaking towards free markets.

[Hauldren Collider]

I think what you are demonstrating, MRT, is the resilience of markets to adverse government policies.

[MrFun]

good stuff

[MrFun]

It doesn't take much effort to point out the many ways in which what his father and uncle accomplished was aided by the efforts of others, including government. Government built the roads used to get to the store, government ensured that the food sold at the store was safe to eat, government provided a relatively safe environment in which to run such a business so that it wasn't ransacked by vandals every night, etc.

And yet, the article's author's father almost worked himself to death (enjoyed retirement only for a few short years before dying).

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

What is the significance of that observation?

[MrFun]

I just don't want Lorizeal or others to gloss over how hard business owners like the article writer's father worked all their lives.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Point taken. They truly are the heroes.

[MrFun]

Obama made a mistake in the way he talked about the interconnections between private business and government. As someone else said in this thread, he'd do well to rephrase it, and admit that he had misspoken.

[Ben Kenobi]

One of the ways in which people can work together manifests itself as the free market; another way is government.

Lorizael - where does the government's money come from? It comes from free enterprise. It comes from taxation on the earnings of individuals, and on businesses. It comes from the hard work of these businessmen.

Obama's right here - Government didn't build it - the people of the united states did.

[C0ckney]

No one argues that a a civil society is not a necessary precursor. However lost in that precursor is that the hand of government really was built on the taxation of the free market. Thus the free market provided all.

and in order to function, even on a small scale, a free market needs an authority to enforce contracts and to provide security. as the scale increases, it needs things like infrastructure, and an education system. as lori says, it's chicken and egg.

[DaShi]

This will matter as much as the op's comments.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I just don't want Lorizeal or others to gloss over how hard business owners like the article writer's father worked all their lives.

MrFun- I can't comment on your relationship with your father, but if I thought mine was remotely near working himself to death I'd tell the silly bugger to stop. There is no nobility in that. It's a tragedy.

[BlackCat]

and in order to function, even on a small scale, a free market needs an authority to enforce contracts and to provide security. as the scale increases, it needs things like infrastructure, and an education system. as lori says, it's chicken and egg.

Nah, you don't need a state for that - corporate owned police forces and militas can handle the security for the companies in the areas they control. That is true free market

[C0ckney]

Nah, you don't need a state for that - corporate owned police forces and militas can handle the security for the companies in the areas they control. That is true free market

indeed. that's why businesses are rushing to somalia.