Wilful Blindness: The Humanitarian Left edition

[Zevico]

Yes, I'm sure this fits perfectly into your chickenhawk wet dream fantasy where all the arabs are nasty terrorists who live and breathe for jihad and to give their lives for Allah.

Cupcake, don't think project your fantasies about chicken hawks on to me. I know you hate right wingers or what have you but going on about is really telling me about you, not Egypt. Who am I kidding? This is why I call you cupcake. Keep fighting the good fight and tilting at windmills.

Incidentally, Islamists don't care about Egypt. As the good Mr Ibrahim observes:

Accordingly, while many Egyptians—Muslims and non-Muslims alike—see themselves as Egyptians, Islamists have no national identity, identifying only with Islam’s “culture,” based on the “sunna” of the prophet and Islam’s language, Arabic.* This sentiment was clearly reflected when the former*Leader of the Muslim Brotherhood, Muhammad Akef, declared “the hell with Egypt,” indicating that the interests of his country are secondary to Islam’s.

http://frontpagemag.com/2012/raymond-ibrahim/muslim-brotherhood-destroy-the-pyramids/2/

Funny that. "The hell with Egypt" doesn't sound...patriotic.
(The article also links to theY calls for pyramid demolition).

And see also:

http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/2012/07/islam-vs-history

[RGBVideo]

Things to consider

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[RGBVideo]

Since somebody's inevitably going to strike at this:

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[Al B. Sure!]

VJ, what do you think of Bosnia? Or Albania? Are the Muslims out of control there?

[giblets]

Don't worry, I'm sure the Amish are going to outbreed the rest of the American population into the stone age.

[kentonio]

Cupcake, don't think project your fantasies about chicken hawks on to me. I know you hate right wingers or what have you but going on about is really telling me about you, not Egypt. Who am I kidding? This is why I call you cupcake. Keep fighting the good fight and tilting at windmills.

Hahaha, I am a right winger you poor sap, at least I was before 'right winger' became synonymous with 'crazy, bigoted extremist'.

[Zevico]

Hahaha, I am a right winger you poor sap, at least I was before 'right winger' became synonymous with 'crazy, bigoted extremist'.

You're a right-winger, but:
- You hate republicans;
- You think a recent republican win in Wisconsin will be a victory for "corporations", even though the major issue in the campaign was public sector labor laws;
- You think voter ID is a form of voter suppression even though it's practised in any number of countries worldwide and this is a pet issue of well known left wing racists like Al Sharpton;
- You think racism is excusable if it is committed by victims of racism, like Al Sharpton; in fact you think racists who are themselves victims of racism deserve to be praised and upheld as standard bearers and leaders of their communities, even though this means they'll have more avenues to broadcast their racism. Like Al Sharpton;
- You think actual intimidation of voters isn't worth worrying about it by groups like the New Black Panthers isn't worth worrying about;
- You don't think circumcision should be legal;
- You're for gay marriage;
- You appear to pretty much automatically support any measure put forward by Democrats on explicitly progressive grounds;

By any definition you're a progressive. Seriously, name a single right-wing position you have. Name one.

[Zevico]

They are the very definitions of a democracy.

Free speech, the rule of law, these are the other prerequisites of a democracy and they were not and are not extant in Egypt.

If you still think this is about religion, then you are willfully blind, not "humanitarian left"

I don't. I think it's about the rise of Islamism after the fall of Arab nationalism.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

VJ, what do you think of Bosnia? Or Albania? Are the Muslims out of control there?

They are not out of control there, but they are culturally a very different kind of muslim, quite secular, very few fundamentalists, virtually none until 20 years ago, but very few today too. I am sure those muslims are not the issue in the Nordics/west but more the ones with proper fundie mentality.

However to me it seems that those fundie muslims while a fair amount in total are also a small minority, anywhere, in UK there is a fair share, but again within muslim population there they are a minority too, it is only that their voice is a lot more vocal, as they want themselves heard, like fundie christians or republicans, all the same group to me.

[Dr Strangelove]

For the past 90 years western powers have kept sizable chunks of the middle east under it's thumb, first with outright colonisation, then after WW2 by paying off or propping up selected strongmen. Mubarak, the Shah, the kings of Saufi Arabia and Jordan come to mind. Some would argue that the rise of the type of fundamentalism we're currently having problems with is directly related to this western imperialism by proxy. The strongmen can't last forever. Eventually popular government would have triumphed anyway.

[Al B. Sure!]

first with outright colonisation.

What colonization? The short-lived League of Nations mandates were not colonization.

[kentonio]

You're a right-winger, but:
- You hate republicans;

Nope, the Republican party was to the right of the UK conservatives but I shared a lot of their ideology. Now however, the GOP is to the right of parties we'd consider hate groups in the UK.

- You think a recent republican win in Wisconsin will be a victory for "corporations", even though the major issue in the campaign was public sector labor laws;
- You think voter ID is a form of voter suppression even though it's practised in any number of countries worldwide and this is a pet issue of well known left wing racists like Al Sharpton;

Putting aside your little Al Sharpton fetish, yes I agree with both those things. Considering prominent Republicans have basically admitted both those things, you'd have to be a moron not to.

- You think racism is excusable if it is committed by victims of racism, like Al Sharpton; in fact you think racists who are themselves victims of racism deserve to be praised and upheld as standard bearers and leaders of their communities, even though this means they'll have more avenues to broadcast their racism. Like Al Sharpton;

You really need to get over your obsession with Al Sharpton, it makes you look like a racist *****. He's a minor figure with very little relevance.

- You think actual intimidation of voters isn't worth worrying about it by groups like the New Black Panthers isn't worth worrying about;

Correct, I don't think an organization of a (at most) few thousand members who everyone (including the Black Panthers) have publically opposed is anything worth getting your little panties in a twist over.

- You don't think circumcision should be legal;

I know right, I oppose mutilating children yet I'm also a big supporter of Israel and the Jews. It's amazing that the universe can survive such a paradox.

You're for gay marriage;

As is the UK Conservative party.

You appear to pretty much automatically support any measure put forward by Democrats on explicitly progressive grounds;

By any definition you're a progressive. Seriously, name a single right-wing position you have. Name one.

We don't have the political term progressive in the UK, because it's a ****ing stupid term to use for your opponents as it implies that you yourself are against progress. If you're not a progressive, what are you? A regressive?

As for me, I'm economically right wing (in UK terms) and pretty centrist/left on social issues. By American standards I'm obviously a communist.

[Dr Strangelove]

What colonization? The short-lived League of Nations mandates were not colonization.

They colonized the area with oil companies and other corporations. Oh, and they promised Palestine to a largely foreign group.