2nd Level German Court: Circumcision illegal

[giblets]

Yes, he was schizophrenic.

Is your position if one twin kills himself, so will the other?

I don't know how he would have turned out without the botched penis. All I'm saying is the closest thing we have to that hypothetical person killed himself even sooner. Really I don't consider this a sufficient basis for arresting Jews who live according to their religion and putting them in prisons.

[Elok]

Shall I go digging for a case where a girl died of sepsis after getting her ears pierced?

[Asher]

I don't know how he would have turned out without the botched penis. All I'm saying is the closest thing we have to that hypothetical person killed himself even sooner.

Arguably he was a victim of his brother's botched circumcision as well.

Did you hear what the evil American doctor made him do?

[Asher]

Shall I go digging for a case where a girl died of sepsis after getting her ears pierced?

Please, because it's a good point also.

Parents should not pierce the ears of newborns or other people who are incapable of making an informed decision.

I'm against tattooing, piercing, and circumcising newborns.

Also, I'm taking a firm stance against the rape of newborns. It's their body - let them consent when they're old enough.

[Elok]

Just provide the figures, Asher, and for the sake of the present argument I'll assume they're correct. I am NOT clicking on a link to a site dedicated to penis-mangling outrage.

[Asher]

It provides a whole bunch of examples as well.

[Elok]

Just the facts, man. Or in this case, the figures.

[Asher]

Botched circumcision rates are in the 1-3% range. At least 1% need repeated surgeries after to repair.

The estimated 1% to 3% incidence of complications after newborn circumcision covers only the immediate postoperative period prior to the infant's discharge from the hospital. The reported risks are hemorrhage in 1%, infection - occasionally leading to sepsis - in 0.5%, meat[iti]s and meatal stenosis, u[r]ethrocutaneous fistula, adhesions between the glans and remaining prepuce, secondary phimosis, and cosmetically unsatisfactory results. The rate of subsequent repeat surgery to correct adhesions of the glans, meatal stenosis, fistula, and phimosis with buried penis is unknown, but our practice at Children's Hospital of Philadelphia includes about two such cases per month. While this is not a large percentage of the total number of circumcisions preformed, it is a significant number of children undergoing surgery for the complication of this operation.

[Elok]

Unpleasant, but provided the parents are informed of the risks I can live with that.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Because the effect is minuscule and hundreds of millions of men live out full, healthy lives not giving a damn that it happened to them.

This is the problem. The people advocating circumcision appear to be unaware that they are cutting off the most sensitive part of the penis.

[notyoueither]

Because the effect is minuscule and hundreds of millions of men live out full, healthy lives not giving a damn that it happened to them.

And some live out lives suffering from complications.

Edit: Note to self, read thread first, then reply.

[notyoueither]

Unpleasant, but provided the parents are informed of the risks I can live with that.

Wow.

[kittenOFchaos]

Circumcision...you really have to wonder how that caught on in the first place.

[The Mad Monk]

So let me understand this... there is no law against circumcision, but the court declared it illegal anyway?

Are German courts in the habit of making up their own laws?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

Like all the best acts of unduly-prolonged stupidity it was because a desert-based schizophrenic 4000 years ago heard voices in his head telling him to kill his son and then cut bits off his genitals.