2nd Level German Court: Circumcision illegal

[Uncle Sparky]

Studies done in Africa show that the risk reduction is more like 50%.

Studies in Africa had a fatal flaw. The ones who underwent religious circumcision came from groups that had strong taboos against pre and extra marital sex and forbade drugs and alcohol. It would be like studying the Amish and saying, "They have beards and almost a 0% HIV rate. All men must grow beards."

Note: I have a beard and don't have HIV.

[Dr Strangelove]

Studies in Africa had a fatal flaw. The ones who underwent religious circumcision came from groups that had strong taboos against pre and extra marital sex and forbade drugs and alcohol. It would be like studying the Amish and saying, "They have beards and almost a 0% HIV rate. All men must grow beards."

Note: I have a beard and don't have HIV.

African muslims may have a problem with drugs and alcohol, but they definitely don't have a problem with extra-marital sex. Remember, if discovered it's the woman who gets punished.

[Asher]

For something this trivial, they really ought to err on the side of religious liberty.

Really?

I think the health of children is more important. Why subject them to a medically unnecessary, one-way procedure that will affect them the rest of their life?

[Asher]

Studies done in Africa show that the risk reduction is more like 50%.

With unprotected sex. With a condom on it's nil.

Why give people more of an excuse?

As a side note, how many men actually contract HIV from women? For some reason this also only applies to heterosexuals. 14 studies have all shown that for MSM, there's no impact.

[Elok]

Really?

I think the health of children is more important. Why subject them to a medically unnecessary, one-way procedure that will affect them the rest of their life?

Because the effect is minuscule and hundreds of millions of men live out full, healthy lives not giving a damn that it happened to them.

[Asher]

BTW, I thought recent studies showed this is also only really true of people circumcised as adults (due to extra scar tissue, etc).

[Asher]

Because the effect is minuscule and hundreds of millions of men live out full, healthy lives not giving a damn that it happened to them.

Tell that to the victims of botched circumcisions. Which happens more than you might think.

David Reimer would be interested in your opinion. But alas, he killed himself due to his botched circumcision.

[Elok]

Um, it sounds like he killed himself due to doctors insisting that he was a girl now, among other things. Generally it appears his whole life was messed up, what with him being a guinea pig for experiments about learned gender identity or something.

[Asher]

Yes. And why did that happen?

[giblets]

Yes. And why did that happen?

Why did he kill himself? Because his wife wanted to leave him? Because suicide was in his family history- his identical twin brother had already done it? I guess this proves that having a brother with a botched circumcision also causes you to kill yourself?

[Asher]

Brother was mentally ill in other ways.

I wonder why a wife would leave a man with no penis?

[giblets]

So apparently someone started with the exact same DNA but didn't have a botched penis, and was raised by the same parents, but he still killed himself.

[Asher]

So apparently someone started with the exact same DNA but didn't have a botched penis, and was raised by the same parents, but he still killed himself.

Yes, he was schizophrenic.

Is your position if one twin kills himself, so will the other?

[Elok]

Well, your one extreme isolated case has certainly convinced me.

[Asher]

http://www.circumstitions.com/death.html

In most cases, botched circumcisions don't result in death. But infections from circumcisions are not rare, and most botched circumcisions just leave it permanently disfigured (and even successful circumcisions permanently disfigure )