2nd Level German Court: Circumcision illegal

[Asher]

So let me understand this... there is no law against circumcision, but the court declared it illegal anyway?

Are German courts in the habit of making up their own laws?

Is circumcision specifically legal?

I've a feeling if I decided to cut a child's earlobes off it'd be illegal, though there's no law against it.

[Ecthy]

So let me understand this... there is no law against circumcision, but the court declared it illegal anyway?

Are German courts in the habit of making up their own laws?

Although I'm not going to go out on a limb claiming it to be strong in Germany, I want to remind you of the possibility of precedent ruling, of which you have certainly heard?

In this concrete case, Spiegel Online reports the verdict not to be binding to other courts, but predicts it to have impact on future jurisdiction. Quote in spoilers from http://tinyurl.com/7cued6c.

Spoiler:

Das Urteil ist für andere Gerichte nicht bindend, wird aber wohl die künftige Rechtsprechung beeinflussen.

[a.kitman]

Unpleasant, but provided the parents are informed of the risks I can live with that.

I wasnt gona post cus onodera nailed it in his post but this is so dumb i just have to quote it.

[Snotty]

♫ Hey! Rabbis! Leave them kids alone! ♫

[ricketyclik]

Ask yourself this, proponents of circumcision: if you hadn't been circumcised shortly after birth, would you choose to be so now? I suspect it's a very rare occurrence that an adult male chooses circumcision. There's no way I would.

Why then should this choice be made for children when they are unable to say no?

[Aeson]

Parents generally get to make all sorts of choices that will affect their kids throughout their life. It starts at choosing that the kid will be born in the first place (the real big one) and snowballs from there.

[ricketyclik]

The sorts of choices that can be deferred until later? Like who you will marry, what career you will pursue? Of course some do do that, but I regard it as rather unfair.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

And just how creepy is it to make decisions to alter the appearance of your kid's genitals?

[Elok]

I don't think there have been any "proponents of circumcision" in this thread, only proponents of letting Jews do something central to their identity as Jews despite its (fairly low) risk of serious complications.

[ricketyclik]

Female circumcision has been criminalised in Australia, despite Muslims arguing that it's their cultural heritage. I think this is a similar case.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

I'd love to know how many of those Jews are taking adequate precautions about sufficiently segregating themselves from menstruating women.

Of course, that might prove a bit inconvenient to them. It's always far easier to be a zealot about issues that only inconvenience other people, isn't it?

[kentonio]

And just how creepy is it to make decisions to alter the appearance of your kid's genitals?

This.

[Elok]

Not really. FGM is a far more radical procedure that leaves women essentially incapable of experiencing sexual pleasure at all even when it's done right. Complications from FGM are much more common due to the unsanitary conditions they're usually performed under. When circumcision is done correctly, it has a negligible effect on the man's life and happiness. When it's not, there are variable risks, but all of them are pretty low even when done by a hospital. Anybody know what they're like when done by an experienced mohel? I read that mohels in the U.S. are not required to be trained or certified in any way--that, at least, ought to change.

EDIT: XPost

[Elok]

I'd love to know how many of those Jews are taking adequate precautions about sufficiently segregating themselves from menstruating women.

Of course, that might prove a bit inconvenient to them. It's always far easier to be a zealot about issues that only inconvenience other people, isn't it?

That task is impossible in modern society unless we pass a law requiring all women to wear signs when they're menstruating, and/or truthfully tell all yarmulke-wearers who ask.

[Kidlicious]

Please, because it's a good point also.

Parents should not pierce the ears of newborns or other people who are incapable of making an informed decision.

I'm against tattooing, piercing, and circumcising newborns.

Also, I'm taking a firm stance against the rape of newborns. It's their body - let them consent when they're old enough.

Another mountain made out of a mole hill.