2nd Level German Court: Circumcision illegal

[Asher]

You're fine with abortions, which I wouldn't want to watch while eating dinner, but removing a foreskin a few days after the baby born is unacceptable?

I'm fine with first trimester abortions, and yes I've watched videos of it.

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

You're fine with abortions

Good tangent. Should parents be permitted to force abortions on their kids?

[Kidlicious]

Why are you two so obsessed with foreskins? The question is not whether foreskin is useful or not, it's about parents' right to force their religion onto their children. It doesn't matter if they cut their skin off or make them pray five times a day or make them observe Lent. It's just that the circumcision is a visible change, but all of these things are permanently affecting the child.

Religion is good for children. It sure beats whatever athiestic crap people are shoving down children's throats.

[Asher]

Yes. Science is evil!

[Kidlicious]

Yes. Science is evil!

You still think science is anti-religion?

[MOBIUS]

Obviously all those in favour of male circumcision are also in favour of female circumcision...

[kentonio]

Religion is good for children. It sure beats whatever athiestic crap people are shoving down children's throats.

How do you force a lack of belief down the throat of someone who begins life without belief?

[Elok]

How do you force a lack of belief down the throat of someone who begins life without belief?

I'd say children begin life totally oblivious about religion--there's a big difference between that and hard atheism. With that said, I'm not going to sit here and argue over whose indoctrination is worse.

[kentonio]

I'd say children begin life totally oblivious about religion--there's a big difference between that and hard atheism.

True although what is usually referred to as 'hard atheism' is exceedingly rare anyway.

With that said, I'm not going to sit here and argue over whose indoctrination is worse.

You're no fun.

[Kidlicious]

How do you force a lack of belief down the throat of someone who begins life without belief?

First, atheism is not a lack of belief. You atheists make a choice, you have a belief. Second, I didn't say you forced your children to believe anything, but by choosing not to practice a religion you are sending the message to your kids that there is no God. You see you can't avoid teaching your children. Children are such that the absorb things from their parents. So how would it look if I were a Jew and I didn't circumcise my child? That sends a message. You request that Jews don't circumcise their boys is absolutely unreasonable and bigoted.

[Asher]

First, atheism is not a lack of belief. You atheists make a choice, you have a belief. Second, I didn't say you forced your children to believe anything, but by choosing not to practice a religion you are sending the message to your kids that there is no God.

No, you are confusing atheism with agnosticism.

Atheists may teach their children there is no God, but that's not the same as an agnostic who makes no claims either way. It simply doesn't matter.

Frankly, if there is a God he doesn't need you sucking his **** every sunday.

You see you can't avoid teaching your children. Children are such that the absorb things from their parents. So how would it look if I were a Jew and I didn't circumcise my child? That sends a message. You request that Jews don't circumcise their boys is absolutely unreasonable and bigoted.

So as long as it's some religious belief, it's okay to do?

Many Sunni muslims believe in female genital mutilation. That's okay, too?

And if my religion told me women are to be subservient to men, and those who aren't receive a beating..that'd be cool, too?

There are limits to freedom of religion. People are welcome to circumcise themselves if their God demands it (what an ******* he must be, by the way). But to circumcise other people before they have their own beliefs is unreasonable and bigoted.

BTW, Kid, if I didn't know better I'd say you were defending the Taliban...

[DaShi]

Well, I believe in female genital mutilation as well. I also believe that something should be done to stop it.

[Kidlicious]

No, you are confusing atheism with agnosticism.

Atheists may teach their children there is no God, but that's not the same as an agnostic who makes no claims either way. It simply doesn't matter.

Agnostics DO NOT believe in God. So I was not confusing the two. If you tell your children that you do not KNOW if God exists or not you are telling them that you DO NOT believe in God.

Frankly, if there is a God he doesn't need you sucking his **** every sunday.

That's what you call God wanting to have a relationship with His creation. Can you please use more polite language and tell me why you believe this?

So as long as it's some religious belief, it's okay to do?

Many Sunni muslims believe in female genital mutilation. That's okay, too?

And if my religion told me women are to be subservient to men, and those who aren't receive a beating..that'd be cool, too?

There are limits to freedom of religion. People are welcome to circumcise themselves if their God demands it (what an ******* he must be, by the way). But to circumcise other people before they have their own beliefs is unreasonable and bigoted.

BTW, Kid, if I didn't know better I'd say you were defending the Taliban...

We've exhausted this conversation. Male circumcision is not any of those things that you make them out to be. Nice hyperbole but I have no other response to this line of reasoning.

[kentonio]

Agnostics DO NOT believe in God. So I was not confusing the two. If you tell your children that you do not KNOW if God exists or not you are telling them that you DO NOT believe in God.

I love it when the religious insist they know better than the non-religious what words like agnostic and atheist REALLY mean. Good work.

[Kidlicious]

I love it when the religious insist they know better than the non-religious what words like agnostic and atheist REALLY mean. Good work.

So you are saying that an agnostic believes in God? They either do or they don't. I don't care how you explain that's a simple fact.