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Doesn't seem like that Arab Spring stuff was the enlightening experience that we hoped it would be..
Zevico, back to you
Zevico, back to you
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Okay. Why should we care? The muslim brotherhood doesn't seem to have control over the military. -
thank YHWH for that
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And how long do you think that will last? Erdogan in Turkey has managed to make the military there heel to his Islamist and neo-Ottoman designs. I'm sure the leadership of the Muslim Brotherhood can pull it off too.Originally posted by gribbler View Post
Looks like Israel may have to teach a few more don't-****-with-us lessons in the near future.
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Morons.“As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
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IckOriginally posted by Zoetstofzoetje View PostDoesn't seem like that Arab Spring stuff was the enlightening experience that we hoped it would be..
Zevico, back to you
Captain of Team Apolyton - ISDG 2012
When I was younger I thought curfews were silly, but now as the daughter of a young woman, I appreciate them. - RahComment
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A country with anywhere from 30 to 50% illiteracy and practically no sustained exposure to Western ideas, decades of exposure to Islamist propaganda and antisemitic propaganda courtesy of the state media and near every Egyptian dissident group, including the secular Wafd, doesn't support Western ideas. I am shocked. Not really--can we all get over projecting our own histories and cultures onto others now? Here's zevico's guide to Patronising Idiot Western Journalists:
1. No Virginia, revolutionaries aren't inevitably democrats. They can and more often than not do consist of the next group of thugs in charge. This assumption that a revolutionary is necessarily a democrat is really nothing more than a unique form of contempt for history and differing cultures, under cover of the fiction that these cultures are just "as good" as our own and will accept democracy in an instant. Those who engage in it are not just patronising, they may be ignorant of the causes of democracy generally.
2. The thugs in charge and the revolutionaries may be incredibly more popular than your democratic fantasies and projections may permit you to accept. Deal with it: if a country has no idea what the difference is between a thug and the democrat it will take thugs any day of the week.
3. Thugs can put forward big ideas broadly accepted by the populace. Nasser promised a socialist Arab state would wipe out Israel. He gave it a good college try in 67 and lost. In the Arab World defeat signalled the collapse of Arabism and the rise of Islamism-if the new ways fail, try the old ways again. The Arab Spring? This is the Islamist Winter--the rise of popular Islamist government as Islamist popular support translates to violent regime change.Last edited by Zevico; June 26, 2012, 06:55."You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James NapierComment
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This.Originally posted by gribbler View Post
Besides this is just populist jingoism from people who don't have the power to make it real.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Jerusalem. Right. Good luck with that, boys.Comment
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I'm perplexed. Why would a Muslim backed Egypt want their capital in Jerusalem? If it's the caliphate they are after, wouldn't they base their capital in Mecca?Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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Given what happened to Alexandria and Memphis? I don't see how anyone can argue that the dial in Egypt should stay stuck on Islam.can we all get over projecting our own histories and cultures onto others now?Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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You could make a decent music video out of this one
Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"Comment
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To clarify: by "project", I mean "assume that others share our views, characteristics and opinions, simply because we think we're fine and dandy and everyone should be like us." This assumption has grounded the worldview of the media class, the left wing and even parts of the "neocon" and non-neo con right. Not everyone is like us.
It is true that we don't know what will happen next and hat the army is still in charge. Butthis may change and civil war or violence may follow. It is also true that the Obama Administration and the boilerplate left wing response to the army's actions has been to call for the installation of the MB into power. See further Barry Rubin's articles--he's the best analyst out there."You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James NapierComment
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Short answer:Originally posted by Ben Kenobi View Post
1. Many Saudis fund and support the MB. First the hijab, then the burka.
2. The MB doesn't want to threaten the Saudis who sheltered their leadership during periods of repression.
3. The Islamist faith holds that Israel is itself a heresy and that it must be reclaimed. Jerusalem has some significance in the Islamic faith.
Mecca and the legitimacy of Saudi Arabia is an awkward issue the MB and the Saudis don't want to fight over yet. Israel is pure heresy--and an issue that animates the Arab-Muslim public. Politically, strategically, it's easier to concentrate on this rather than on doctrinal divisions. For now--this may change, but not until the MB actually achieves a more substantial foothold in Egypt.
Aside: Spengler of PJmedia notes that the MB is already establishing the beginning of a competing state structure.
The prevailing possibilities appear to be a power sharing deal or a violent stand off between the military, the MB and the Salafis or all of the above. Bring on the transition, Barack! Great work!Last edited by Zevico; June 24, 2012, 22:51."You say that it is your custom to burn widows. Very well. We also have a custom: when men burn a woman alive, we tie a rope around their necks and we hang them. Build your funeral pyre; beside it, my carpenters will build a gallows. You may follow your custom. And then we will follow ours."--General Sir Charles James NapierComment
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I don't think that's really all that politicially astute. You've just taken over Egypt and you want to rule Egypt from Jerusalem? Egypt has quite a few of it's own problems, things that I don't see the MB addressing.Mecca and the legitimacy of Saudi Arabia is an awkward issue the MB and the Saudis don't want to fight over
Seems to me it's just sabre-rattling, and bad sabre rattling at that. Plus you manage to piss off the Palestinians, and the Syrians, since the Syrians are certainly no friends to the Egyptians. I mean if Egypt wants to go full-on Jihadi it's going to royally piss off everyone invested in the status quo.
It's not been since whom? The Mamlukes? That Egypt has really pushed for something like this? That's a long time ago.Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
"Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
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