Hello everybody

[Ben Kenobi]

Do I vandalize or do I not?

I never said you vandalized anyone or anything.

Do I rape or do I not?

[Asher]

Manslaughter is not 'accidental death'. Accidental death is death which occurs of actions that had no such intent. Manslaughter is simply causing someone's death without planning beforehand.

You're a ****ing ******, I swear...

Manslaughter is an accidental death. Killing somebody in the heat of the moment without planning beforehand is 2nd degree murder. Planning beforehand is 1st degree murder.

As it happens, BOTH of them pleaded guilty to MURDER in the end.

Severity has nothing to do with it. The only thing that would indicate something greater than manslaughter is planning it beforehand. Demonstrating that they were in clear possession of their facilities beforehand and made a plan and proceeded to execute it.

You are stupid beyond words...

[Ben Kenobi]

You ****ing moron. BOTH victims claimed the "gay panic defense". How the **** could they do that if they didn't know he was gay?

Special crimes for special people.

[Asher]

I never said you vandalized anyone or anything.

I've witnessed your vandalism before, and had to clean it up.

Which is it?

[Asher]

Special crimes for special people.

What. The. ****.

They were charged with MURDER. They plead guilty to MURDER.

MURDER is not a special crime. It was murder, they got charged for murder, THEY ADMITTED IT WAS MURDER.

[Ben Kenobi]

Manslaughter is an accidental death. Killing somebody in the heat of the moment without planning beforehand is 2nd degree murder. Planning beforehand is 1st degree murder.

Manslaughter is not an accidental death.

As it happens, BOTH of them pleaded guilty to MURDER in the end.

As a jurist, I can't take that into consideration.

If the case were before me as presented, I would convict both for manslaughter. I don't believe there's sufficient evidence to warrant going higher. You believe otherwise - that's fine. That's the reason they have juries in the first place.

[Ben Kenobi]

Which is it?

So if I say, "we are brothers" that means we have the same mom? FFS. This isn't difficult, Asher.

[EPW]

Passing Through

*Head Explodes*

[Asher]

If the case were before me as presented, I would convict both for manslaughter. I don't believe there's sufficient evidence to warrant going higher. You believe otherwise - that's fine. That's the reason they have juries in the first place.

This is why you are scum.

No sane person, no reasonable person, no unbiased person could claim this was manslaughter.

Shortly after midnight on October 6, 1998, Shepard met Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson for the first time at the Fireside Lounge in Laramie, Wyoming.[7] It was decided that McKinney and Henderson would give Shepard a ride home.[8] McKinney and Henderson subsequently drove the car to a remote, rural area and proceeded to rob, pistol-whip, and torture Shepard, tying him to a fence and leaving him to die. According to their court testimony, McKinney and Henderson also discovered his address and intended to steal from his home. Still tied to the fence, Shepard, who was still alive but in a coma, was discovered 18 hours later by Aaron Kreifels, a cyclist who initially mistook Shepard for a scarecrow.[9]

Shepard had suffered fractures to the back of his head and in front of his right ear. He experienced severe brainstem damage, which affected his body's ability to regulate heart rate, body temperature, and other vital functions. There also were about a dozen small lacerations around his head, face, and neck. His injuries were deemed too severe for doctors to operate. Shepard never regained consciousness and remained on full life support. While he lay in intensive care, candlelight vigils were held by the people of Laramie.

Police arrested Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson shortly after the attack, finding the bloody gun and Shepard's shoes and wallet in their truck.[16]

Henderson and McKinney later tried to persuade their girlfriends to provide alibis for them.[17]

At trial, McKinney offered various rationales to justify his actions. He originally pleaded the gay panic defense, arguing that he and Henderson were driven to temporary insanity by alleged sexual advances by Shepard. At another point, McKinney's lawyer stated that they had wanted to rob Shepard but never intended to kill him.[16]

The prosecutor in the case alleged that McKinney and Henderson pretended to be gay in order to gain Shepard's trust.[18] During the trial, Kristen Price, girlfriend of McKinney, testified that Henderson and McKinney had "pretended they were gay to get [Shepard] in the truck and rob him".[19][20] McKinney and Henderson went to the Fireside Lounge and selected Shepard after he arrived. McKinney alleged that Shepard asked them for a ride home.[19]

After befriending him, they took him to a remote area outside of Laramie where they robbed him, assaulted him severely, and tied him to a fence with a rope from McKinney's truck while Shepard pleaded for his life. Media reports often contained the graphic account of the pistol whipping and his fractured skull. It was reported that Shepard was beaten so brutally that his face was completely covered in blood, except where it had been partially washed clean by his tears.[21][22] Both girlfriends also testified that neither McKinney nor Henderson were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time.[23][24]

Henderson pleaded guilty on April 5, 1999 and agreed to testify against McKinney to avoid the death penalty; he received two consecutive life sentences. The jury in McKinney's trial found him guilty of felony murder. As they began to deliberate on the death penalty, Shepard's parents brokered a deal, resulting in McKinney receiving two consecutive life terms without the possibility of parole.[25]

If that's not murder, what the **** is?

[Asher]

So if I say, "we are brothers" that means we have the same mom? FFS. This isn't difficult, Asher.

You are a child rapist.

I like how I can say this openly now on this site. It's something we all knew, anyway.

[Ben Kenobi]

McKinney's lawyer stated that they had wanted to rob Shepard but never intended to kill him.

pretended they were gay to get [Shepard] in the truck and rob him

That's reasonable doubt right there, Asher.

She didn't say, "pretended they were gay to get Shepard in the truck and kill him". She said rob.

Kill would be first degree right there, because there would be a witness saying that they had planned to kill him before picking him up. What reason would McKinney have to lie about this?

[Asher]

And to be extra clear, Ben -- neither of those killers were charged with a hate crime or any kind of "special crime for special people".

They were tried for murder, found guilty of murder, and admitted they were murderers because they were murderers.

[Flubber]

If the case were before me as presented, I would convict both for manslaughter.

Ben

just curious where you got your facts for the "case as presented"? Earlier you were saying the fact that the victim was gay was unknown to the defendents.

ASher has responded with assertions that an accused's girlfriend testified they posed as gay to lure the victim. Do you dispute this testimony? How did you reach your conclusion that they did not know?

For the record I agree that the sexual orientation of the victim is irrelevent . .. . . EXCEPT when it goes to motive and premeditation.

Ben do you dispute the testimony of the gorlfriend as asserted by Asher?

[Asher]

That's reasonable doubt right there, Asher.

She didn't say, "pretended they were gay to get Shepard in the truck and kill him". She said rob.

Kill would be first degree right there, because there would be a witness saying that they had planned to kill him before picking him up. What reason would McKinney have to lie about this?

Too ****ing stupid to live, I swear. It's unbelievable.

After you spend half an hour beating the **** out of someone while they beg for their life to the point where their face is not recognizable, the body more resembles a "scarecrow" (according to a witness) than anything else, and tying him up in the middle of nowhere...that is plainly intent to kill.

[Ben Kenobi]

I like how I can say this openly now on this site. It's something we all knew, anyway.

I'm not sure why you are obsessed with my sex life. But do go on. Keep telling people all about me and how I abuse children.