Hello everybody

[Asher]

So it had nothing to do with religious people? Good to know.

So are you stating that no religious people have killed gay people because they're gay?

We've had this discussion before about Matthew Shepard specifically. He's far from the only gay person murdered by religious people for being gay. Far.

Russell Henderson and Aaron McKinney do call themselves Christian, FWIW. You claim they aren't because they didn't go to church regularly, or something equally bizarre.

[Asher]

Uh, it's a perfectly valid use of the word 'you' when referring to someone who shares these principles. Are you not aware of this?

I do not share principles with vandalism.

You rape little boys. (I can say this because you share principles with priests).

Right, that's because I tend to use derogatory language when referring to homosexual people. Feel free to sift through my posts...

Unlike you, who's said plenty of derogatory things about Catholics over the years. I'm the bigotted one here, right.

Damn right you are. See your posts about vandalism. You paint an entire minority group guilty, how else can you describe that but bigoted?

[Ben Kenobi]

So are you stating that no religious people have killed gay people because they're gay?

I'm saying that your cause celebre had nothing to do with 'religious people'. Heck I'm not even sure they even knew he was gay - he pissed off the wrong people at the wrong time. It's like it used to be for serfs and nobles. Killing a noble is just like killing someone of a 'protected class'. Their lives are worth more than the common folk.

He's far from the only gay person murdered by religious people for being gay.

Except for the fact that religious people had nothing to do with his death. Facts are stubborn things.

Russell Henderson and Aaron McKinney do call themselves Christian, FWIW. You claim they aren't because they didn't go to church regularly, or something equally bizarre.

Actually I claim they didn't even know he was gay and they got in a fight and Shepherd ended up dying. Manslaughter sure - but that's where it begins and ends.

The way you word it it's like the priests held him down for the nuns...

[Asher]

I'm saying that your cause celebre had nothing to do with 'religious people'. Heck I'm not even sure they even knew he was gay - he pissed off the wrong people at the wrong time. It's like it used to be for serfs and nobles. Killing a noble is just like killing someone of a 'protected class'. Their lives are worth more than the common folk.

Except for the fact that religious people had nothing to do with his death. Facts are stubborn things.

Both killers talk about praying a lot. Aaron McKinney says he prays every day, and he talks with Pastors behind bars.

I'm sure he's not religious, though. Atheists pray and talk to Pastors about Catholicism all the time.

Actually I claim they didn't even know he was gay and they got in a fight and Shepherd ended up dying. Manslaughter sure - but that's where it begins and ends.

No, they definitely knew. You know nothing about the case.

[Ben Kenobi]

I do not share principles with vandalism.

You share their hatred of the Catholic church. Which you continue to prove with every post.

You rape little boys. (I can say this because you share principles with priests).

Last I checked priests don't boast about their conquests the way folks boast about smashing up Catholic parishes and 'putting us in our place'. Priests at least know they are doing wrong.

You paint an entire minority group guilty

Like you are doing with 'religious people'. What, are buddhists holding down the gays too? Or maybe it's the muslims you are referring to, but prefer not to talk about them, eh? All religious people are the same.

[Asher]

Actually I claim they didn't even know he was gay and they got in a fight and Shepherd ended up dying. Manslaughter sure - but that's where it begins and ends.

Just so Ben's offensive douchebaggery is completely clear...the admitted statement of facts from the case indicates this "fight" involves with the killers offering Shephard a ride home. During this fight they peacefully drove out to the middle of ****ing nowhere, where the fight "escalated"...they pistol-whipped Shepard, they tortured him, and they tied him up to a fence post where he slowly died.

Manslaughter, sure! Just an accidental death as part of a bar fight!

What ****ing scum you are, Ben. You honestly should be banned from this private site forever on the basis of being a truly pathetic specimen of humanity. You are not worthy of posting privileges here.

[Ben Kenobi]

No, they definitely knew. You know nothing about the case.

You're right. I don't think people should get a longer sentence if their victim happens to be gay instead of straight. I believe that crimes are crimes and should be the same for everyone.

And I also don't believe there's enough evidence to substantiate your claim that they did know. You might want that to be the case, but that's just wishful thinking.

[Asher]

Like you are doing with 'religious people'. What, are buddhists holding down the gays too? Or maybe it's the muslims you are referring to, but prefer not to talk about them, eh? All religious people are the same.

I've never said all religious people murder gays. You have said that all gays vandalize.

[Ben Kenobi]

Just so Ben's offensive douchebaggery is completely clear...the admitted statement of facts from the case indicates this "fight" involves with the killers offering Shephard a ride home. During this fight they peacefully drove out to the middle of ****ing nowhere, where the fight "escalated"...they pistol-whipped Shepard, they tortured him, and they tied him up to a fence post where he slowly died.

Did they ask him to pray with them beforehand?

Manslaughter, sure! Just an accidental death as part of a bar fight!

Manslaughter isn't 'accidental death'. But then you know that. Special crimes for hurting special people, right?

What ****ing scum you are, Ben.

For saying they ought to be convicted for their crime of killing someone? Right. Scum I am.

[Asher]

You're right. I don't think people should get a longer sentence if their victim happens to be gay instead of straight. I believe that crimes are crimes and should be the same for everyone.

And I also don't believe there's enough evidence to substantiate your claim that they did know. You might want that to be the case, but that's just wishful thinking.

****ing scum.

You ****ing moron. BOTH victims claimed the "gay panic defense". How the **** could they do that if they didn't know he was gay?

[Asher]

Did they ask him to pray with them beforehand?

There's a stellar argument. People who claim to be Christian, who come from Christian families, who discuss praying and regularly speak to Pastors were not religious because in the moments before killing a ******, they didn't ask to pray.

Manslaughter isn't 'accidental death'. But then you know that. Special crimes for hurting special people, right?

It was plain murder. Manslaughter is an accidental death -- or more specifically, it's a death without malice intentions.

Beating someone so severely as Shepard was and tying him up to a remote fence clearly indicates malice. It's murder.

For saying they ought to be convicted for their crime of killing someone? Right. Scum I am.

For intentionally misrepresenting the stated facts of the case because it helps your political cause.

[Ben Kenobi]

I've never said all religious people murder gays. You have said that all gays vandalize.

Quite false. Some do. Others spin furiously rather then saying, "hey this is wrong".

Why is it bigotted to say that yes, gay people have vandalized parishes, and disrupted masses? There's plenty of evidence for it.

[Asher]

Another tidbit that Ben probably didn't know. McKinney's girlfriend (who was present at the bar) testified under oath that both killers pretended to be gay in order to gain Shepard's trust.

But I'm sure they didn't know. It's just a fight...

[Asher]

Quite false. Some do. Others spin furiously rather then saying, "hey this is wrong".

It's not "quite false". You have plainly stated you have cleaned up MY vandalism.

Do I vandalize or do I not?

[Ben Kenobi]

There's a stellar argument. People who claim to be Christian, who come from Christian families, who discuss praying and regularly speak to Pastors were not religious because in the moments before killing a ******, they didn't ask to pray.

So, if they didn't pray 'allahu ackbar' prior to shooting up the joint then it's fair to say that religious convictions were not involved?

It was plain murder. Manslaughter is an accidental death -- or more specifically, it's a death without malice intentions.

Manslaughter is not 'accidental death'. Accidental death is death which occurs of actions that had no such intent. Manslaughter is simply causing someone's death without planning beforehand.

Beating someone so severely as Shepard was and tying him up to a remote fence clearly indicates malice. It's murder.

Severity has nothing to do with it. The only thing that would indicate something greater than manslaughter is planning it beforehand. Demonstrating that they were in clear possession of their facilities beforehand and made a plan and proceeded to execute it.

For intentionally misrepresenting the stated facts of the case because it helps your political cause.

My political cause is arresting people who beat up gay people and sentencing them to manslaughter if they kill their victim? Odd that.