Privately owned guns save more lives than they take

[SlowwHand]

It's a warning. What's wrong with telling people that they could likely be making more mistakes than those of which they're aware? It also protects licensed carriers.

[Al B. Sure!]

Concealed carry laws are dropping crime rates across the country. A comprehensive national study determined in 1996 that violent crime fell after states made it legal to carry concealed firearms. The results of the study showed:

* States which passed concealed carry laws reduced their murder rate by 8.5%, rapes by 5%, aggravated assaults by 7% and robbery by 3%

That stat is problematic. 1996 was around when crime rates plummeted following the crack epidemic. This is the decline that Steven Levitt associated with the legalization of abortion (~20 years after Roe v. Wade). Regardless of the validity of his claims, this decline was due to a number of factors, not just concealed carry laws.

[Lorizael]

Proof- advertising stops rapes.

[Jon Miller]

I have been robbed once, in Sweden, by two idiot kids. This is really rare in Sweden (most people I knew didn't even know someone who had been robbed). And my town was not large.

There might have been an attempted robbery in College Park near my home (group of black teens). I was quite drunk at the time, and hugged the person who said he had a gun, and stumbled home. I praise God for my safety.

Here is some Meth use information: http://www.oas.samhsa.gov/2k6/statemeth/stateMeth.htm
"Rates of past year methamphetamine use among persons aged 12 or older were among the highest in Nevada (2.0 percent), Montana (1.5 percent), and Wyoming (1.5 percent), and among the lowest in Connecticut, Maryland, Massachusetts, New Jersey, and New York (approximately 0.1 percent)

Young adults aged 18 to 25 were more likely to use methamphetamine in the past year (1.6 percent) than youths aged 12 to 17 (0.7 percent) and adults aged 26 or older (0.4 percent)

Rates of past year methamphetamine use among young adults aged 18 to 25 were among the highest in Wyoming (4.6 percent), Arkansas (4.4 percent), Minnesota (3.8 percent), and Nevada (3.8 percent), and among the lowest in New York (0.3 percent), Connecticut (0.4 percent), and Vermont (0.4 percent)"

Meth use seems to be predominantly western. I would probably be interested in prescription amphetamines if not for their illegality, experience with users, and my history. The idea of more energy is always attractive.

Jon

[Tuberski]

Yeah the criminals had to get the guns from somewhere. They didn't make them.

This:



is disturbing, though. 11% of people killed by cops were innocent? Can we get stats on race, too? The common belief is, from numerous high-profile incidents, that police are quicker to pull the trigger on Black suspects.

11% higher shootings not killings.

It stands to reason that cops shooting rate is higher, they are in more ambiguous situations than someone defending themselves. Someone defending themselves most likely know the person in question isn't innocent.

ACK!

[kentonio]

I'll start this off with the caveat that I am 100% in favor of privately owned guns and enjoy them myself.

However let's think about this problem for a minute. Unless people are using their guns to defend themselves from wild animals, which is, I suspect, an unusual scenario, people are defending themselves against armed adversaries. Unless said adversaries are armed with knives, which again I suspect is the exception rather than the rule, they are defending themselves against other people with privately owned guns.

Long story short, for any specific defensive gun use, there is a very high probability that there is a cooresponding offensive gun use. For every offensive gun use, there is not as high a probability that there will be a cooresponding defensive gun use.

If we define "privately owned guns" as "privately and legally owned guns" then this may very well be accurate, but otherwise the proposition is absurd.

EDIT: well actually this thread was about lives lost/saved, so I guess it might still be true. Nonetheless, the ratio of offensive gun uses to defensive gun uses is almost certainly greater than 1:1.

Good post.

[Uncle Sparky]

Privately owned guns don't save lives; people save lives.
Guns have not saved a single life.

[Dr Strangelove]

We went over this years and years ago. Take a look at the research that claimed that hand guns are used defensively 2 million times / year. In the survey the author also asked if the defender fired the weapon and if he hit the attacker. 25% of the so-called defensive gun users stated that they fired their weapons and of those 40% claimed to have hit their "attacker". Do a little math (2,000,000 x 0.25 = 500,000 x 0.40 = 200,000 ) and you come up with 200,000 gun shot wounds. That's totally bogus. The expected fatalities from 200,000 gunshot wounds would be in the vicinity of 40,000 to 75,000. Reporting gun fatalities , or for that matter gun wounds, is mandated by law in every state, and the total number of gun fatalities, including homicide, suicide and accidental comes no where close to the figures expected if this research were true. When the research was published medical societies quickly caught this glaring error. The guy who conducted the research and published the study responded by postulating an enormous conspiracy of physicians clandestinely treating wounded criminals.

I think the guy's name was Kleck.

[Felch]

Most of them probably didn't hit.

[Guynemer]

Oh, good. HL is back.

Unbelievably, guns are used almost 7000 times a day in self-defense.

You're right. That is, literally, unbelievable, because that is the most bull**** statistic I've seen in quite a while.

[Guynemer]

Meth use seems to be predominantly western. I would probably be interested in prescription amphetamines if not for their illegality, experience with users, and my history. The idea of more energy is always attractive.

Jon

Cops busted a meth lab two weeks ago three blocks down the street from my typical, middle-class house, in my typical, middle-class neighborhood.

Don't fool yourselves, folks. Drugs are everywhere, in every neighborhood, all over the country.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Oh, good. HL is back.



You're right. That is, literally, unbelievable, because that is the most bull**** statistic I've seen in quite a while.

If you count practice at the gun ranges in order to be prepared...

[The Mad Monk]

Cops busted a meth lab two weeks ago three blocks down the street from my typical, middle-class house, in my typical, middle-class neighborhood.

Don't fool yourselves, folks. Drugs are everywhere, in every neighborhood, all over the country.

to an East Coaster, Ohio is western.

[Al B. Sure!]

Ohio is the mid-west, right?

[Bugs ****ing Bunny]

There might have been an attempted robbery in College Park near my home (group of black teens). I was quite drunk at the time, and hugged the person who said he had a gun, and stumbled home.

Oh, bless you Jon. That really is the definite Jno Mlkhpoihp; moment.