Why isn't this murder?

[Aeson]

I would only agree with you if he chased after the kid AFTER the physical confrontation started. If he's just running after somebody who ran, then I don't see how that has any relevance.

Have you ever had someone chase you in the dark? I have. The very act of chasing someone down in the dark is to instigate an altercation. It's self defense if you pop someone who just chased you down in the dark. And yes, you "give up" the right to shoot someone for popping you, if you went out of your way to chase them down in the dark.

[Aeson]

The only piece which is different here is that the kid in this case did not commit any crime (prior to the physical confrontation, where the facts are in dispute). However, as far as I can see it that has no bearing on this case (the vigilante is not a law enforcement officer, so he has no right to enforce the law through physical confrontation).

The bearing on this case is that Zimmerman obviously chased down an innocent person and thus instigated the altercation. Chasing someone who obviously just committed a crime is completely different as they already instigated the altercation by committing the crime.

[KrazyHorse]

Have you ever had someone chase you in the dark? I have. The very act of chasing someone down in the dark is to instigate an altercation. It's self defense if you pop someone who just chased you down in the dark.

No, it isn't. It may become self defense depending on what happens when he corners you/you turn around to face him, depending on what he does (which does not have to include him getting his hands on you). Otherwise I could reasonably claim self defense by running down the alley, turning and shooting him in the chest.

[Aeson]

No, it isn't. It may become self defense depending on what happens when he corners you/you turn around to face him, depending on what he does (which does not have to include him getting his hands on you). Otherwise I could reasonably claim self defense by running down the alley, turning and shooting him in the chest.

Nowhere have I said anything about the pursued using a gun. That is obviously different than popping someone in the face due to the range and severity of the counter-attacks.

Zimmerman reportedly had a bloodied nose. You chase someone down in the dark, that's what you should expect to receive. To receive it, you have to have closed within arm's reach. It is very different than your counter example where there is distance between the two. It's very different than your counter example where a deadly weapon is used.

Zimmerman was obviously wrong to chase the guy down, obviously endangered lives by doing so. He shouldn't be on the streets. He shouldn't have a gun. That's the very least that should have happened.

[Jaguar]

I have no idea why people make such huge fusses over things like this. It looks like George Zimmerman is guilty, and it looks like he'll be arrested soon.

There's no need to make this a soapbox for everyone's grievances about racism and law enforcement.

[Aeson]

I have no idea why people make such huge fusses over things like this. It looks like George Zimmerman is guilty, and it looks like he'll be arrested soon.

There's no need to make this a soapbox for everyone's grievances about racism and law enforcement.

Then half the internet would not exist anymore. Billions of dollars in advertising revenue would vanish. The stock market would crash as Google lead the panic down. People would start talking to each other in public and getting into fist fights instead of flame wars... Zimmerman would have to chase down millions of people who were out on their porches enjoying the evening instead of locked inside posting on message boards and watching 24/7 news channels... utter chaos!

[-Jrabbit]

I have no idea why people make such huge fusses over things like this. It looks like George Zimmerman is guilty, and it looks like he'll be arrested soon.

There's no need to make this a soapbox for everyone's grievances about racism and law enforcement.

But Jag, it's the Internet! Where vigilante justice is served up via the Enter key!
Instead of a gun!
Yay, Internet justice! It's working!

[BlackCat]

Correct. A 911 operator is not a police officer

Are you sure ? Until recently, we had police officers answering 911 calls and still have - though a recent reform means that medical calls are sent to medic staff.

[Al B. Sure!]

Are you sure ? Until recently, we had police officers answering 911 calls and still have - though a recent reform means that medical calls are sent to medic staff.

Denmark is not America. Thank god

[Al B. Sure!]

I have no idea why people make such huge fusses over things like this. It looks like George Zimmerman is guilty, and it looks like he'll be arrested soon.

There's no need to make this a soapbox for everyone's grievances about racism and law enforcement.

It's questionable that Zimmerman would have been arrested without public pressure. Who knows now but it seems plausible that the police would have let this slide.

. Two people who witnessed the crime followed the perpetrator to his house while on the phone with the cops. If the perpetrator had turned around and attacked them would they have ceded their right to self-defense by having followed him?

When I did it (though the operator told me not to ), they ended up charging the guy for 'terroristic threats' for him threatening me... the DA's office told me they were going for witness intimidation, but he took terroristic threats in his plea.

[BlackCat]

Denmark is not America. Thank god

Are you saying that yanks are happy with low quality nonprofessional service when they call for help ?

[Al B. Sure!]

Are you saying that yanks are happy with low quality nonprofessional service when they call for help ?

Cops belong on the street, not on the phone.

I say that even though I've had experience with terrible dispatchers.

[BlackCat]

Cops belong on the street, not on the phone.

I say that even though I've had experience with terrible dispatchers.

Al, you certainly are an idiot. Professionals at a phone do a way better job than any cheap unexperienced noob no matter what kind of service they are providing.

[Al B. Sure!]

Al, you certainly are an idiot. Professionals at a phone do a way better job than any cheap unexperienced noob no matter what kind of service they are providing.

I want my cops on the street. We don't have enough cops as is.

[giblets]

I'm guessing Denmark is a much safer place than Philly.