Why isn't this murder?

[Sava]

I can understand how this is self defense. When you are armed with a gun and attack a stranger who then fights back, you pretty much gotta kill them or else they will kill you.

[kentonio]

Ah, FOX news has identified the real victim of this crime, apparently its the NRA..

http://loyalopposition.blogs.nytimes...-later/?src=tp

[kittenOFchaos]

Deleted

[The Mad Monk]

Awww...

[KrazyHorse]

Granted that if you provide an easy way for somebody to commit murder in the guise of justifiable homicide then the murder rate is bound to go down.

Justifiable homicides are an extremely small portion of all homicides in the US (on the order of 2-3% depending on whether or not you include homicides committed by law enforcement officers). I'm not aware of any quantitative work on the subject, but one could imagine that there may well be a negative correlation between ease of arguing self-defense and homicides due to a deterrent effect. There is some (though not overwhelming) evidence that the death penalty has such an effect. It is convincing enough to have converted me from completely anti-death penalty to a relative agnostic.

[Al B. Sure!]

So he may have said '****ing coons' on the police call... I didn't hear it when I first heard it, though. Funny how people told someone said something makes you hear it now.

[regexcellent]

Justifiable homicides are an extremely small portion of all homicides in the US (on the order of 2-3% depending on whether or not you include homicides committed by law enforcement officers). I'm not aware of any quantitative work on the subject, but one could imagine that there may well be a negative correlation between ease of arguing self-defense and homicides due to a deterrent effect. There is some (though not overwhelming) evidence that the death penalty has such an effect. It is convincing enough to have converted me from completely anti-death penalty to a relative agnostic.

I'm confused by this...are you saying you're in favor of things that discourage people from self-defense in a direct way?

[Dinner]

Personally, I like the duty to retreat laws for people in public places as they still allow someone to defend themselves but they don't give cover to hot heads who just want to show what a big man they are by pulling out a gun. Sadly, many states (even my own) have drastically reduced or even eliminated the duty to retreat.

[KrazyHorse]

I'm confused

Yes.

[MrFun]

KH just made the best post in this entire thread.

[regexcellent]

Yes.

And in particular you aren't opposed to the death penalty because you think it discourages people from defending themselves?

[KrazyHorse]

No.

[The Mad Monk]

Zimmerman's father speaks.

George Zimmerman's father: My son is not racist, did not confront Trayvon Martin
Robert Zimmerman spoke exclusively Thursday to the Orlando Sentinel

By Rene Stutzman, Orlando Sentinel

10:42 p.m. EDT, March 15, 2012
The Sanford Neighborhood Watch volunteer who shot and killed Trayvon Martin, an unarmed black teenager, did not instigate the encounter but has received death threats and moved out of his home, his father told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

George Zimmerman, 28, has not been arrested, something that has put him and the Sanford Police Department at the center of a firestorm. Critics say Trayvon, who was visiting family from his home in Miami, was a victim of racial profiling.

Zimmerman's father, 64-year-old Robert Zimmerman of Lake Mary, delivered a one-page letter to the Sentinel on Thursday, saying that the depiction of his son in the media has been cruel and misleading.

George Zimmerman is Hispanic and grew up in a multiracial family, the statement says.

"He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever ...," the letter says. "The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth."

The letter does not provide details about what happened Feb. 26 on a walkway in the gated community where George Zimmerman lives and where Trayvon was visiting. But it does challenge one basic assumption of the family's lawyers: that Zimmerman's intent when he got out of his sport utility vehicle was to confront Trayvon after calling police to report a suspicious person.

"At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event became public, and I hope that will be soon," the letter said, "everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media."

Police have released little information about what happened that night and no details about how Trayvon and Zimmerman came to be face to face.

No one disputes that Zimmerman called police from his SUV, then left it and encountered Trayvon on foot as the teenager returned from a 7-Eleven candy run.

Before an officer arrived, Trayvon and Zimmerman got into a fight, according to police, and witnesses heard one or both calling for help, and Zimmerman shot Trayvon once with a 9 mm handgun.

Zimmerman told police he acted in self-defense. Police found blood on his face and the back of his head as well as grass on the back of his shirt.

That jibes with what Cheryl Brown's teenage son witnessed while walking his dog that night. Thirteen-year-old Austin stepped out his front door and heard people fighting, he told the Orlando Sentinel on Thursday.

"I heard screaming and crying for help," he said. "I heard, 'Help me.' "

It was dark, and the boy did not see how the fight started, in fact, he only saw one person, a man in a red shirt — Zimmerman — who was on the ground.

The boy said he is not sure who called for help. After a moment, his dog escaped, and he turned to catch it and a few seconds later heard a gunshot, he said.

"When I heard the shot, the screaming stopped," he said.

He then rushed inside and told his sister to call police.

In his letter, Robert Zimmerman wrote that what happened that night was "tragic … and very sad for all concerned. The Martin family, our family and the entire community have been forever changed."

George Zimmerman has not talked publicly about what happened, his father said, because that's the advice police gave him. Both Zimmerman families have moved out of their homes, at least temporarily, Robert Zimmerman said, because they've received death threats.

Police on Tuesday turned the case over to the State Attorney's Office, saying they did not have evidence to justify George Zimmerman's arrest on a charge of manslaughter.

Prosecutors will now likely spend several weeks studying the case before making a decision on whether to charge Zimmerman.

Sanford police Chief Bill Lee Jr. told the Sentinel on Thursday night that he has invited the U.S. Department of Justice and the Florida Department of Law Enforcement to review the investigation.

"It's an open book," Lee said. "If they want to look at what we did and how we did it and what information we have, they're welcome to it."

The FDLE has received a letter from the State Attorney's Office asking agents to review the case, spokeswoman Gretl Plessinger said.

Sanford police on Thursday also challenged a WFTV-Channel 9 report, in which Mary Cutcher said police largely ignored her even though she told them, "I know this was not self-defense. There was no punching, no hitting going on at the time, no wrestling."

Police said they twice tried to interview her without success, and the third time, she wrote a very short sworn statement for her roommate that was consistent with Zimmerman's account.

More than 400 people gathered Wednesday at a Sanford church, where black community leaders and Baltimore evangelist Jamal Bryant again demanded that Zimmerman be arrested.

Some of Trayvon's family members are expected to be a news conference this morning called by Orlando attorney Natalie Jackson, who is representing the family.

Another rally is scheduled for Monday outside the Seminole County Courthouse. And a call has been issued for people to rally March 26 during the Sanford City Council meeting.

Staff writers Susan Jacobson and Jeff Weiner contributed to this report. rstutzman@tribune.com or 407-650-6394.



Statement of Robert Zimmerman, father of Neighborhood Watch volunteer:

“The tragic events of February 26 are very sad for all concerned. The Martin family, our family, and the entire community have been forever changed.

The portrayal of George Zimmerman in the media, as well as the series of events that led to the tragic shooting are false and extremely misleading. Unfortunately, some individuals and organizations have used this tragedy to further their own causes and agendas.

George is a Spanish speaking minority with many black family members and friends. He would be the last to discriminate for any reason whatsoever. One black neighbor recently interviewed said she knew everything in the media was untrue and that she would trust George with her life. Another black neighbor said that George was the only one, black or white, who came and welcomed her to the community, offering any assistance he could provide. Recently, I met two black children George invited to a social event. I asked where they met George. They responded that he was their mentor. They said George visited them routinely, took them places, helped them, and taught them things and that they really loved George. The media portrayal of George as a racist could not be further from the truth.

The events of February 26 reported in the media are also totally inaccurate. Out of respect for the on-going investigation, I will not discuss specifics. However, the media reports of the events are imaginary at best. At no time did George follow or confront Mr. Martin. When the true details of the event become public, and I hope that will be soon, everyone should be outraged by the treatment of George Zimmerman in the media.

Our entire family is deeply sorry for the loss of Trayvon. We pray for the Martin family daily. We also pray that the community will grieve together and not be divided by more unwarranted hate.

The Zimmerman family will have no further contact with the media prior to the resolution of the investigation. It would be greatly appreciated if the media would respect our privacy.”

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/os-trayvon-martin-shooting-zimmerman-letter-20120315,0,1716605.story

[DaShi]

Did his mother say how smart and handsome he is?

[The Mad Monk]

News at 10!