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  • Originally posted by Imran Siddiqui View Post
    That whole social issues thing is pretty big to a lot of conservatives.


    Regardless, they should be able to recognize that Romney will bring them more of their agenda than Santorum, since Santorum will definitely lose and Romney has a fighting chance.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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    • Originally posted by Dinner View Post
      Oh, and speaking of the Republican agenda lets not forget how they want to take away over time pay and even minimum wage reguirements for thousands of workers simply because their boss is a huge Republican donor. That's just political corruption plain and simple.
      You know, I was thinking it might be because minimum wage laws are universally agreed by economists to be stupid, but hey, who knows. Let's blame corruption.
      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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      • If they felt that way they'd try to get rid of it for everyone instead of just having a special carve out for only a group of political donors. How do you feel about over time? Ditch that too? I ask because they also want to do that for the same group of campaign donors. Oh, did I mention these people drive long distances in large trucks so having people operating heavy machinery who are dead tired from a 15 hour shift might not be a great idea from a public safety stand point. Hopefully, it's not your car they run into killing all aboard.
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        • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
          it might be because minimum wage laws are universally agreed by economists to be stupid
          I'm torn on whether you know that statement is untrue and are lying or if you're truly that ignorant of the views of economists.

          Or maybe that economics textbook you looked at was from before the 1990s?
          Tutto nel mondo è burla

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          • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
            You know, I was thinking it might be because minimum wage laws are universally agreed by economists to be stupid, but hey, who knows.
            I think the reason so many working poor people are on food stamps and other programs, is because the minimum wage is insufficient for living on. But yes, let's eliminate the minimum wage altogether, and get millions MORE people onto welfare!
            A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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            • You both are talking nonsense. Especially you, MrFun. But we all know your grasp of economics is almost as flimsy as kiddy's. Even Paul Krugman admits that minimum wage is a mistake, and although he's not intellectually honest enough to recognize that required benefits are just a more paternalistic version of minimum wage, there are essentially no reputable economists that believe minimum wage is a good policy, just as there are no reputable biologists that agree with creationism and no reputable historians that accept holocaust denial.
              Last edited by Hauldren Collider; February 14, 2012, 03:51.
              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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              • While I know little of economics, I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that a "reputable economist" is defined as "an economist who doesn't buy into all that nonsense about the minimum wage."
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                • Yes, clearly if Paul Krugman says so then it's the universal opinion of all economists. Sure, ~40% of economists are Democrats, but none of them are in favor of the minimum wage. None. I don't need to offer any proof.

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                  • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post


                    Regardless, they should be able to recognize that Romney will bring them more of their agenda than Santorum, since Santorum will definitely lose and Romney has a fighting chance.
                    I wouldn't be so sure of that. The longer this freakshow goes on, the weaker Romney appears; his approval rating is deep in the red, while Obama has pulled himself out of the net negatives. The latest polling has Obama beating Romney by something like 8-10 points.

                    Granted, it is February, and Santorum/Gingrich have even worse numbers amongst independents, etc., but the primary voters may have already delivered victory to Obama.
                    "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                    "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                    • Though, to be honest, I doubt most people really even know that much about Romney. These primaries are fun for us political types, but the primary turnouts have been super low.
                      “I give you a new commandment, that you love one another. Just as I have loved you, you also should love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you have love for one another.”
                      - John 13:34-35 (NRSV)

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                      • Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
                        The fact that Romney is losing in Michigan--MICHIGAN, HIS ****ING HOME STATE--to Rick "Santorum" Santorum is just... I...
                        The RCP average has Romney up by 7.3%.
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                        • RCP also uses zogby in their average, FWIW.

                          Edit: Correction. They no longer use zogby. I guess they finally realized how awful zogby was.
                          "I hope I get to punch you in the face one day" - MRT144, Imran Siddiqui
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                          • Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                            You both are talking nonsense. Especially you, MrFun. But we all know your grasp of economics is almost as flimsy as kiddy's. Even Paul Krugman admits that minimum wage is a mistake, and although he's not intellectually honest enough to recognize that required benefits are just a more paternalistic version of minimum wage, there are essentially no reputable economists that believe minimum wage is a good policy, just as there are no reputable biologists that agree with creationism and no reputable historians that accept holocaust denial.
                            So you're lying, fine.

                            http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2009/12/16/would-cutting-the-minimum-wage-raise-employment/

                            A
                            nd I suppose Card and Krueger aren't "reputable," nor is Stiglitz in your view.

                            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage#Empirical_studies

                            A 2000 survey by Dan Fuller and Doris Geide-Stevenson reports that of a sample of 308 American Economic Association economists, 45.6% fully agreed with the statement, "a minimum wage increases unemployment among young and unskilled workers", 27.9% agreed with provisos, and 26.5% disagreed. The authors of this study also reweighted data from a 1990 sample to show that at that time 62.4% of academic economists agreed with the statement above, while 19.5% agreed with provisos and 17.5% disagreed. They state that the reduction on consensus on this question is "likely" due to the Card and Krueger research and subsequent debate.[79]A similar survey in 2006 by Robert Whaples polled PhD members of the American Economic Association. Whaples found that 37.7% of respondents supported an increase in the minimum wage, 14.3% wanted it kept at the current level, 1.3% wanted it decreased, and 46.8% wanted it completely eliminated.[80]

                            Surveys of labor economists have found a sharp split on the minimum wage. Fuchs et al. (1998) polled labor economists at the top 40 research universities in the United States on a variety of questions in the summer of 1996. Their 65 respondents split exactly 50-50 when asked if the minimum wage should be increased. They argued that the different policy views were not related to views on whether raising the minimum wage would reduce teen employment (the median economist said there would be a reduction of 1%), but on value differences such as income redistribution.[81] Daniel B. Klein and Stewart Dompe conclude, on the basis of previous surveys, "the average level of support for the minimum wage is somewhat higher among labor economists than among AEA members."[82]


                            By no means to actual facts support your absurd claim of "universal" disapproval of the minimum wage. But keep digging in on that stupid comment.
                            Tutto nel mondo è burla

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                            • Originally posted by DinoDoc View Post
                              The RCP average has Romney up by 7.3%.
                              The results show that Romney needs to sway more Republican voters in Michigan, where Romney’s father served as governor and where he won in 2008.
                              "My nation is the world, and my religion is to do good." --Thomas Paine
                              "The subject of onanism is inexhaustable." --Sigmund Freud

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                              • Originally posted by Guynemer View Post
                                I wouldn't be so sure of that. The longer this freakshow goes on, the weaker Romney appears; his approval rating is deep in the red, while Obama has pulled himself out of the net negatives. The latest polling has Obama beating Romney by something like 8-10 points.

                                Granted, it is February, and Santorum/Gingrich have even worse numbers amongst independents, etc., but the primary voters may have already delivered victory to Obama.
                                Obama! Four more years!
                                A lot of Republicans are not racist, but a lot of racists are Republican.

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