Seriously, GOP? Really?

[DinoDoc]

Who the hell winds up paying for this?

The Church.

[Hauldren Collider]

A "wrong" that is utterly trivial ("Birth control lets people enjoy sex for sex's sake! EVIL!") and, as cited above, not actually a wrong according to the SCOTUS.

The fact that you don't understand why this is wrong is very revealing. I'll give you a little hint: it has nothing to do with the morals of protected sex.

[Hauldren Collider]

You claimed in the past that killing someone is the right thing to do if it will save multiple lives.

This is not a mutually exclusive choice. We can allow religious freedom and ban abortions at the same time.

[Boris Godunov]

The fact that you don't understand why this is wrong is very revealing.

Yes, it reveals I'm far more concerned with the practical reality of how human beings really are, and how to seriously stop unwanted pregnancies. That it might hurt the feelings of some old virgins who also think sex abuse of children is no big deal doesn't bother me in the slightest. Moral clarity.

[Hauldren Collider]

And you just gave away the game: "[COLOR=#000000]And anyone stupid enough to do the whole coat-hanger-closet thing doesn't have my sympathy." Oh? I thought we were talking about the "murder" of babies? Isn't that where sympathies should like? You just admitted that isn't your actual concern, it's actually having authoritarian control over people's bodies!

Oh really? Or perhaps I simply don't have sympathy for murderers? I personally find my own 's at the fact that you are totally convinced that I am all about controlling bodies rather than simply having a moral objection to abortion.

I'm not sure what makes you believe my sympathies don't lie with the dead children. I stated that I'm unsympathetic to women who would perform illegal abortions.

[DaShi]

But you're fine with legal abortions.

And you claim Alpert's education was wasted.

[Hauldren Collider]

Boris is still totally convinced that I actually oppose widespread use of contraception, which is ludicrous.

The catholic church is ****ing crazy to oppose it, but hey, we have a first amendment for a reason, I figure.

[DaShi]

Boris is correct. You may not have realized it, but your arguments require that you oppose contraception. This may not be what you meant.

[Elok]

You don't think insurance companies have figured out by now how to include such costs in their premiums without making it obvious?

Entirely possible, but conservative Catholics are already suspicious of this, and at least a few of them have to be insurance-savvy. They're going to be giving their insurance policies the inquisition treatment, and raising hell the moment they find the slightest evidence of higher costs due to contraceptives. This is just kicking the outrage-can down the road.

[Boris Godunov]

Oh really? Or perhaps I simply don't have sympathy for murderers? I personally find my own 's at the fact that you are totally convinced that I am all about controlling bodies rather than simply having a moral objection to abortion.

I'm not sure what makes you believe my sympathies don't lie with the dead children. I stated that I'm unsympathetic to women who would perform illegal abortions.

Since no one was asking about your sympathies for women who have illegal abortions, why did you even bring it up? Because that's where your focus lies, not in saving babies. Otherwise, you'd acknowledge that prohibition against abortion doesn't stop it.

During the 1950s and 1960s, when abortion was illegal across the country, it's estimated anywhere from 600,000-1.2 million abortions occurred each year. Today, the average number is less than 1 million per year. Given the increase in population, what does that tell you about the effectiveness of prohibition?

Your priority is authoritarianism, we get it. You don't believe there's a problem that can't be solved via brute force, OK.

[Boris Godunov]

Boris is still totally convinced that I actually oppose widespread use of contraception, which is ludicrous.

The catholic church is ****ing crazy to oppose it, but hey, we have a first amendment for a reason, I figure.

Where did I ever say that you opposed contraception in general, you ****? Nowhere.

I am specifically referring to your stated objection that the government ensure contraception is widely available and free.

And speaking of crazy, there are several religious beliefs of various churches that are similarly crazy but on which they are still obligated to follow the law. That's why a Mormon-affiliated hospital can't refuse to hire/serve black people, despite the (now hush-hush) belief in their scriptures that black people are cursed. I'm guessing you didn't bother to read Scalia's opinion on how religious entities are not entitled to abstain from any laws and regulations they wish.

[Boris Godunov]

Entirely possible, but conservative Catholics are already suspicious of this, and at least a few of them have to be insurance-savvy. They're going to be giving their insurance policies the inquisition treatment, and raising hell the moment they find the slightest evidence of higher costs due to contraceptives. This is just kicking the outrage-can down the road.

Meh, let them. As I said above, now that the progressive Catholics are appeased, this will only serve to bring social issues to the forefront of the election, which is something that will work in Obama's favor. He'll be happy to remind women of this again and again.

[giblets]

This is not a mutually exclusive choice. We can allow religious freedom and ban abortions at the same time.

Just because you ban abortions doesn't mean they won't happen. Even if you ban abortions, improving access to contraception would still make abortions less common.

[giblets]

I'm not sure what makes you believe my sympathies don't lie with the dead children. I stated that I'm unsympathetic to women who would perform illegal abortions.

You have to be a rabid misogynist to claim that you have no sympathy for a woman who is so desperate she would stick a coat hanger in her vagina in an attempt to get rid of her pregnancy, but still claim you value other human beings.

[Boris Godunov]

Having empathy for other, actual human beings isn't HC's strong point, though. I mean, he doesn't give two ****s about what happens to the babies once they're born, I'd wager.