If we legislate laws in U.S. based on the Bible . . .

[giblets]

I didn't say you can't complain.

I did say that they should be able to make decisions based on their religious beliefs, just like people make decisions based on all other sorts of beliefs. If you don't want them to make decisions based upon religious beliefs than feel free to try to convince than to be atheists. Some of them do the same thing to atheists to try to convince them to be theists.

Why is it that when a democratic country has voters who make decisions based on all sorts of beliefs (but not ones that are classified as religious), this is a good thing and it is a democracy. But when the voters make decisions based on all their beliefs (including ones classified as religious) it is suddenly a theocracy?

I think that your position is nonsense and unreasonable.

You saying that people should not be able to vote based upon their beliefs is an action against freedom of conscience and it is entirely consistent for me to take action against it.

JM

Because I don't want crazy people (like that Catholic guy with bad hair on youtube) deciding the country should be "ruled by God" instead of being ruled by the people. If a crazy person decided to vote based on what the voices in their head said I wouldn't like that either. However I'm not going so far to say that there needs to be some sort of sanity test for voting.

[Jon Miller]

Actually, actions to protect freedom of conscience is important in a democracy for that very reason.

Imagine that 80% of the populace were like the guy on youtube saying the country should be 'ruled by God' (this isn't so outrageous, it is the case in egypt maybe?).

Then the reason why you would be allowed to vote and make actions based on your belief (That the country should not be 'ruled by God') would be because freedom of conscience is respected.

So it is important to take action to defend it from all positions (including the country should not be 'ruled by God').

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think its apt on this day to wonder what if Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. thought God had no place in our democracy?

[Dinner]

It's official. Republicans in Congress have been so obstructionist, even blocking things they campaigned on and claimed to support, that this is the most worthless and least productive Congress in history.

Congress logs most futile legislative year on record

It’s official: Congress ended its least-productive year in modern history after passing 80 bills — fewer than during any other session since year-end records began being kept in 1947.

Furthermore, an analysis by The Washington Times of the scope of such activities as time spent in debate, number of conference reports produced and votes taken on the House and Senate floors found that Congress set a record for legislative futility by accomplishing less in 2011 than any other year in history.

The Senate’s record was weakest by a huge margin, according to the futility index, and the House had its 10th-worst session on record.

Of the bills the 112th Congress did pass, the majority were housekeeping measures, such as naming post office buildings or extending existing laws. Sometimes, it was too difficult for the two chambers to hammer out agreements. More often, the Senate failed to reach agreement within the chamber.

That left much of the machinery of the federal government on autopilot, with the exception of spending, where monumental clashes dominated the legislative session.

“Absent unified party control with a bolstered Senate majority, I think it’s just very hard to get things done, particularly in a period when revenues aren’t growing and the decisions are how to cut, and how to cut in the long term,� said Sarah Binder, who studies Congress as a Brookings Institution scholar and professor at George Washington University. “Congress just isn’t very good at solving long-term problems.�

The futility record could be short-lived. The full House returns from a month-long Christmas break on Tuesday to begin the second session, but all sides expect election-year paralysis, meaning some of the usually routine bills may run into trouble.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2012/jan/15/congress-logs-most-futile-legislative-year-on-reco/?page=all#pagebreak

[Elok]

JM, what, in practical terms, do you mean by "voting based on religious belief"? If you mean voting for policies which are based purely on one's religious belief, those would violate the first amendment, I think...

[MrFun]

I think its apt on this day to wonder what if Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. thought God had no place in our democracy?

I think MLK Jr. wanted Americans to include God as a spiritual guide, in extending rights to people, not in denying people's rights.

[Imran Siddiqui]

JM, what, in practical terms, do you mean by "voting based on religious belief"? If you mean voting for policies which are based purely on one's religious belief, those would violate the first amendment, I think...

First Amendment only constrains government action to establish government. A Congressman can vote on providing more funding for the poor based solely because Jesus said to love your neighbor and what we do for the least of these we do to him, but there is no First Amendment violation in that. Religious intent is not barred, but the effects of actual religious establishment.

[Imran Siddiqui]

I think MLK Jr. wanted Americans to include God

Agreed! You banish God from the public sphere because some people use God for hate, then you also banish the good uses - the Martin Luther King, Jr.'s being the most obvious.

[DaShi]

That's fine with me as long as the god is Allah.

[Jon Miller]

JM, what, in practical terms, do you mean by "voting based on religious belief"? If you mean voting for policies which are based purely on one's religious belief, those would violate the first amendment, I think...

If you say "I don't want to vote for someone who wants to murder all muslims because murdering muslims is evil" than I would argue that you are voting based on religious belief.

JM
(Note that this is for Elok, if gribber said it than it might have nothing to do with religious belief. Religious belief is a motivator, just like all other sorts of beliefs.)

[Jon Miller]

I don't think that most people can differentiate than religious beliefs from their non-religious beliefs. I know I can't, and I have actually tried a bit.

By this I mean I can't say 'this belief (which might be 'secular') comes about because I have this other religious belief' or 'this belief (which might be 'religious') comes about because I have this other non-religious belief'. Particular beliefs are obviously secular or religious in fundamental nature, but since any rational person has beliefs that depend upon other beliefs, everything fits together and is related in some way.

JM
(There might be some religious beliefs that can be entirely segregated, but this is not usual.)

[DinoDoc]

least productive Congress in history.

[Dinner]

Where as DD ties Drake for the least intelligent poster in history.

[Elok]

If you say "I don't want to vote for someone who wants to murder all muslims because murdering muslims is evil" than I would argue that you are voting based on religious belief.

JM
(Note that this is for Elok, if gribber said it than it might have nothing to do with religious belief. Religious belief is a motivator, just like all other sorts of beliefs.)

? Not getting you here. Do you mean it's based on religious belief insofar as my morals are all ultimately grounded in my Christianity? Because that would make almost everything I think a "religious belief." I prefer to reserve the label for things which are exclusively due/related to religion.

[Jon Miller]

? Not getting you here. Do you mean it's based on religious belief insofar as my morals are all ultimately grounded in my Christianity? Because that would make almost everything I think a "religious belief." I prefer to reserve the label for things which are exclusively due/related to religion.

Yes, almost everything you think is a 'religious belief'.

Pretty much every vote you make is therefore based on 'religious belief'.

Just as muslim's in Egypt or that guy on youtube.

JM