Margaret Thatcher was Britains greatest leader since Churchill. Discuss.

[regexcellent]

Although I've long suspected it, this thread has convinced me that HC is willfully ignorant. He goes out of his way to not learn or understand things. The saddest part is that he is taking a spot in at a university that is more deserving for someone else.

What he's saying isn't badly reasoned. At worst it's just misinformed. For instance, the idea that Hong Kong would be demolished in a conflict over it to the point where it wouldn't be valuable has merit. Certain facts like the distance over water between it and the mainland (which in fact is very small and the water is pretty shallow) are relevant, and if he isn't correct on those it doesn't reflect on his intellectual capacity. It certainly doesn't reflect on his ability to study most technical degrees in my opinion.

[Hauldren Collider]

Kentonio-

I found this article which was one of the ones I was talking about, but I'm still doing my archive crawl. I'll post the other one I mentioned when I find it.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052970204346104576638223579907618.html

EDIT: Here we go. http://blogs.wsj.com/chinarealtime/2...ege-degree-44/
Older than I thought. Still, it illustrates a good point. When you demand more graduates, the value of a degree drops.

[DaShi]

What he's saying isn't badly reasoned. At worst it's just misinformed. For instance, the idea that Hong Kong would be demolished in a conflict over it to the point where it wouldn't be valuable has merit. Certain facts like the distance over water between it and the mainland (which in fact is very small and the water is pretty shallow) are relevant, and if he isn't correct on those it doesn't reflect on his intellectual capacity. It certainly doesn't reflect on his ability to study most technical degrees in my opinion.

But that's an extremely obvious fact to point out. It's not clever and the one-sided way he applies shows a complete lack of critical thinking.

[DaShi]

They've got huge numbers of graduates with worthless rubber-stamp degrees. I've seen article after article detailing how the Chinese education system is basically one massive diploma farm for all but a small handful of people.

While Chinese universities greatly lag behind America at all but a few schools, there is still some value in their education. To call them worthless rubber-stamp degrees is grossly misinformed.

[DaShi]

As I've already pointed out, I don't think China would even have attempted to take Hong Kong back, just gotten angry.

Really? I think that the Chinese would magically develop telekinetic properties and kick the Brits out with their thoughts alone. I'm supporting that with the same material that you are supporting yours with.

[DaShi]

I doubt that highly. Top Chinese brass have admitted to the Pentagon that they are generations behind in military tech. A top general visiting the United States a few months back when Gates was still SecDef commented that China couldn't hope to compete with US seapower. I still don't totally understand why Americans are so worried about Chinese militarism. I'm not.

Who? And is this the only thing supporting your claim, or do you have something more substantial?

[regexcellent]

But that's an extremely obvious fact to point out. It's not clever and the one-sided way he applies shows a complete lack of critical thinking.

Just because it might not demonstrate a high level of critical thinking doesn't mean it shows a complete lack of that ability. I don't really agree with his assessment, but you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand (it does in fact have some merit imo), let alone say that it makes him an idiot.

Really? I think that the Chinese would magically develop telekinetic properties and kick the Brits out with their thoughts alone. I'm supporting that with the same material that you are supporting yours with.

Firstly, he did provide support by drawing parallels to Taiwan. Feel free to disagree with the legitimacy of that but don't claim that he didn't back up his statements at all. Moreover, not supporting statements appears to be a grand tradition on Apolyton.

[DaShi]

Wait. HC, you replied to this:

What makes you think that? At a time when science education is slowing in the west, China has huge numbers of graduates going into the sciences. You just aren't far enough ahead to assume you're always going to stay there.

With this:

They've got huge numbers of graduates with worthless rubber-stamp degrees. I've seen article after article detailing how the Chinese education system is basically one massive diploma farm for all but a small handful of people.

Do the honorable thing and give your seat at CMU to someone more deserving.

[DaShi]

Just because it might not demonstrate a high level of critical thinking doesn't mean it shows a complete lack of that ability. I don't really agree with his assessment, but you shouldn't dismiss it out of hand (it does in fact have some merit imo), let alone say that it makes him an idiot.

No, it was a complete lack at worst. Well below average at best.

Firstly, he did provide support by drawing parallels to Taiwan. Feel free to disagree with the legitimacy of that but don't claim that he didn't back up his statements at all. Moreover, not supporting statements appears to be a grand tradition on Apolyton.

He didn't. He just said, "Taiwan!" And pretty much left it at that. You may be impressed by short-bus reasoning, but the rest of us aren't.

[regexcellent]

I didn't say I was impressed; I said that he had at a minimum something which could be construed as evidence to back up what he was saying. Also, lacking reasoning in an argument doesn't demonstrate inability to reason generally.

His performance in this thread, which isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think it is, is most certainly not grounds for him to "give up his seat at CMU." THAT was just a personal attack and doesn't belong in this thread at all, unlike what HC has been saying.

[DaShi]

I didn't say I was impressed; I said that he had at a minimum something which could be construed as evidence to back up what he was saying. Lacking reasoning in an argument doesn't demonstrate inability to reason generally.

Which you've failed to demonstrate. You even attributed something MikeH said to him in order to bolster his stance, which means you're either having sex with him or can't read.

[DaShi]

His performance in this thread, which isn't nearly as bad as you seem to think it is, is most certainly not grounds for him to "give up his seat at CMU." THAT was just a personal attack and doesn't belong in this thread at all, unlike what HC has been saying.

His performance certainly isn't what one would expect from a CMU student. Or maybe it is. CMU doesn't really pop up on my radar.

[regexcellent]

In practice, they've given up on Taiwan. They haven't stopped *****ing about it, but they are not actually ever going to try to retake it. NOTE, this is evidence in favor of Britain being able to keep HK, as we've largely managed to evade the fallout of propping up Taiwan.

First mention of Taiwan was by Elok, followed by this post by HC. Elok's post was using Taiwan as evidence against holding Hong Kong, and HC claimed that it is in fact evidence in favor of being able to hold Hong Kong. You are the one who cannot read, apparently.

[DaShi]

How sad that you don't even know what I was referring to. When you figure it out, please respond.

[DaShi]

Oh, and that's 20. ****!