Margaret Thatcher was Britains greatest leader since Churchill. Discuss.

[MOBIUS]

It's not like Britain's got a great history of making good on its colonial deals, anyway. Both Hong Kong and Britain stood to gain from Hong Kong remaining an overseas territory. So what if it was a deal? Deals aren't worth a whole lot internationally, and deals made generations ago are worth even less.

It's all moot, obviously, since the handover happened. I'm just pointing out that it didn't need to.

WTF!? A country would soon run out of all credibility and friends if it embarked on that kind of policy!

Not to mention the fact that China would have just taken it anyway and there would have been nothing the UK could have done about it - talk about a lose lose situation!

This is like an insight into you really, isn't it? Basically that you're a petty two-faced liar that shouldn't be trusted with anything...

Oh and talking about colonialism etc, read the history of your own ****ing country before passing moronic judgements like that. Actually why not start with how it acquired Hawai'i seeing as Braindead brought it up. Your country has the benefit of seeing how other countries ****ed things up in the past and yet it continues to set a new standard in international relations ****ups...

[MOBIUS]

.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

Oh and talking about colonialism etc, read the history of your own ****ing country before passing moronic judgements like that. Actually why not start with how it acquired Hawai'i seeing as Braindead brought it up. Your country has the benefit of seeing how other countries ****ed things up in the past and yet it continues to set a new standard in international relations ****ups...

it has British ancestry in its blood

[MOBIUS]

Yeah, you've got to admire them for ironing out all the kinks and REALLY ****ing the planet over.

Next up: The Chinese

[MikeH]

Anyway, as soon as someone mentioned Atlee, the opening postulate was proved false. Maybe I should close the thread.

[BeBMan]

Thatcher hated freedom. Opposed the unification of Germany for silly reasons like past world wars and somesuch.

[MikeH]

Two world wars and one world cup? / EnGERland Fan.

[MikeH]

Not condoning that retarded chant btw...

[molly bloom]

A line from a folk song, 'The Brown Girl' comes to mind:

I'll dance upon your grave for twelve months and a day.

since I wouldn't like to take advantage of the current physical and mental decline of the old witch, I'll save it for her demise.

She is quite possibly the first person I have ever hated and detested. Even now, old speeches of hers make me incandescent- the fake accent, the glutinously soft voice, the nonstop rain of condescension- like Ben Kenobi, but slightly more masculine.

What the Luftwaffe and post war town planners couldn't achieve, she did.

[molly bloom]

Yes, they absolutely could have. China would not have contested, for a few reasons: 1, if they had tried to fight a war over Hong Kong, enough of the city would have been destroyed to make it worthless anyway. 2, Britain's Navy, although much smaller than ours, is orders of magnitude more capable than China's. 3, both countries have nukes and the Chinese would be reluctant to enter a shooting war with another nuclear power.

Frankly, I don't know why the British didn't keep it.

Because Hong Kong was a pimple on the body of China, and the army of the People's Republic was a short walk from Kowloon and the New Territories and the centre of Hong Kong.

Because Galtieri and his forces were not the Chinese army and the Falklands were islands.

Because like Macau, Hong Kong was leased as part of a treaty.

Because the United Kingdom didn't want a pointless war with China (that it couldn't conceivably win with non-nuclear weapons) and certainly wasn't going to entertain the possibility of having to house hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong Chinese refugees, no matter what economic benefits that might ultimately accrue from having such entrepeneurial capitalists over here.

You have heard of Tiananmen Square, I take it ?

And Tibet ?

[Dauphin]

You have heard of Tiananmen Square, I take it ?

And Tibet ?

"Is that where General Tso cooks his chicken?"

[Hauldren Collider]

As I've already pointed out, I don't think China would even have attempted to take Hong Kong back, just gotten angry.

[molly bloom]

As I've already pointed out, I don't think China would even have attempted to take Hong Kong back, just gotten angry.

It 'took back' Tibet, and Tibet was a sovereign nation.

It invaded Viet Nam.

It intervened in the Korean War.

It went to war with India over some glaciers.



Are you still not getting the picture ?

[Hauldren Collider]

No, I get the picture. I think Hong Kong is different from all those places, and I already explained why. You, on the other hand, are a vitriolic idiot who selectively states facts learned on Wikipedia to support hypotheses that are only slightly more intelligent--but equally self righteous and filosofical as Boris'.

[Elok]

The blaggards still haven't given up on Taiwan, and it's been what, fifty years? I don't think Britain wants that kind of PITA, even if they could have kept Hong Kong. There's no way the economic gains would be worth the staggering diplomatic losses.