If the Angel Gabriel were to come to earth

[MrFun]

I like this clip.

Loved it. What show is that clip from?

[giblets]

Can you see the video title?

[MrFun]

Oh - the opaque title on bottom right hand corner. Ringer

[giblets]

No, that's not it. It's "Supernatural".

[Ben Kenobi]

not material is not knowable.

Not knowable empirically? Or not knowable at all.

How does one confirm the statement that "that which is not material is not knowable" is true?

[Lorizael]

Not knowable empirically? Or not knowable at all.

Not knowable without being omniscient.

How does one confirm the statement that "that which is not material is not knowable" is true?

Short answer: By defining "not material" that way.

Slightly longer answer: It's a logical consequence of the axioms that serve as the foundation for my metaphysics.

[Ben Kenobi]

Not knowable without being omniscient.

You are aware that empiricism isn't tenable with this preposition? This is why empiricism demonstrates how to obtain reliable material knowledge, it's principles are not. Empiricism assumes that there is a material and 'immaterial' realm, and draws no conclusions about the latter.

Short answer: By defining "not material" that way.

Sure, not material isn't obtainable under empirical knowledge, but it is not unknowable, because we can derive knowledge through reason itself.

Slightly longer answer: It's a logical consequence of the axioms that serve as the foundation for my metaphysics.

Metaphysics isn't material and you cannot derive metaphysical axioms from empiricism.

Descartes shows you why you are wrong. This is bizarre. Here I am arguing FOR reason, when usually I argue precisely the opposite...

[Lorizael]

You are aware that empiricism isn't tenable with this preposition? This is why empiricism demonstrates how to obtain reliable material knowledge, it's principles are not. Empiricism assumes that there is a material and 'immaterial' realm, and draws no conclusions about the latter.



Sure, not material isn't obtainable under empirical knowledge, but it is not unknowable, because we can derive knowledge through reason itself.



Metaphysics isn't material and you cannot derive metaphysical axioms from empiricism.

Descartes shows you why you are wrong. This is bizarre. Here I am arguing FOR reason, when usually I argue precisely the opposite...

I have no desire to engage in discussion about my philosophical beliefs with you. Suffice it to say, you've made a lot of assumptions about what I believe that are incorrect.

[Ben Kenobi]

I have no desire to engage in discussion about my philosophical beliefs with you. Suffice it to say, you've made a lot of assumptions about what I believe that are incorrect.

Uh, last I checked, you were the one who brought up your beliefs in the first place. If you had no intention of discussing them, why bring them up?

Anyways, the metaphysical assertion that "only the material world is knowable", contradicts itself. Whatever else you believe using this axiom is unreliable for the same reason. It just doesn't work.

Maybe if I summon Aggie he will come forth. Come out, come out, wherever you are, Agathon!

[Lorizael]

Uh, last I checked, you were the one who brought up your beliefs in the first place.

No, Kid did.

Anyways, the metaphysical assertion that "only the material world is knowable", contradicts itself. Whatever else you believe using this axiom is unreliable for the same reason. It just doesn't work.

You're misinterpreting what I said.

[Ben Kenobi]

You're misinterpreting what I said.

Then I apologize and please rephrase.

[Berzerker]

a) of course
b) if he can prove it

[Aeson]

I would also ask Gabriel why he participated in the crime against humanity known as "Legion".