Does hell really make sense?

[Kidlicious]

I don't get why you would create wickedness in the first place if you want to destroy it.

How can good exist without evil?

[giblets]

How can good exist without evil?

God is good. God can exist without evil. Right?

[Kidlicious]

God is good. God can exist without evil. Right?

I'm talking about KNOWING that He is good. How can you know what good is unless you know what evil is?

[giblets]

What is the point in knowing that? What's so great about knowing that makes so much suffering worth it? And why do people still suffer after they've figured out that God is good?

[Kidlicious]

What is the point in knowing that? What's so great about knowing that makes so much suffering worth it? And why do people still suffer after they've figured out that God is good?

Our perspective is dependent on our circumstance. But if you believe in God you know suffering ends. Even if you don't believe in God you can wait for death. But while you wait you can think about how good your life was.

[Ben Kenobi]

True. Which makes it rather pathetic when their bronze age deity supposedly destroys whole cities for not doing what they're told to do. Either he's a sadist or the whole god thing is nonsense.

He gives us free will. Hence we can choose to defy him, or choose to love him and follow His laws.

[Ben Kenobi]

God is good. God can exist without evil. Right?

Absolutely. However, evil is a product of free will. If we could not choose to sin then we would not have true free will.

And why do people still suffer after they've figured out that God is good?

One, why would people go out of their way to attack someone who is calling people out for their sins? Look at what they did to Christ. Did they love him? No. They crucified him. It's very true that even if you do the right thing that people will go out of their way to try to hurt you.

Two, God allows suffering here on Earth, because the challenge is to rise about the suffering.

Three, We all only have a certain amount of time here. The limitations on our bodies and natural disasters are all a part of this world.

So there are many reasons why the righteous can and do suffer that have absolutely nothing to do with God being unjust.

[giblets]

My will. Isn't that big?

What was the point in him giving it to you in the first place?

[Kidlicious]

What was the point in him giving it to you in the first place?

So that you have something to give to Him.

[giblets]

So that you have something to give to Him.

Why does an omnipotent creator of the universe need gifts from humans? And why is this need so important that it justifies all of the suffering associated with free will?

[Proteus_MST]

The issue is that it didn't go that way.
1500 years after Jesus, Christian denominations could be counted with the fingers of one hand (Western Catholic, Eastern Orthodox, Oriental Orthodox, Nestorian Church of the East) and the differences were small, about complex theological points with regards to the Nature of Christ (his divinity and humanity), which were sometimes almost semantic differences.
...

One thing that surely had to do with the dominant stream within the early church gaining power in the roman empire during the 4th century and then beginning to actively persecute all other early christianities that had other opinions about important things (for example concerning Trinity, divinity of Jesus and so on) and to burn their scriptures (which is why for example, before the discovery of the Nag Hammadi library almost nothing was known about Gnosticism).
The christian world seems to have been much more diverse (and less "unified") before this time

[Jon Miller]

Why does an omnipotent creator of the universe need gifts from humans? And why is this need so important that it justifies all of the suffering associated with free will?

If you don't want to have free will, fine.

I think free will is a good thing. God gives us free will because He is good.

JM

[Kidlicious]

Why does an omnipotent creator of the universe need gifts from humans? And why is this need so important that it justifies all of the suffering associated with free will?

First, what is it to you? Second, God.doesn't need justification.

[kentonio]

If you don't want to have free will, fine.

I think free will is a good thing. God gives us free will because He is good.

JM

How does that make sense though? It appears people are saying free will basically = being able to choose between good or evil, and that that is the only reason why evil really exists. Surely that means that following free will instead of just doing what you're supposed to is logically saying you're choosing to be bad, because if you were choosing to be good you wouldn't need free will.

[giblets]

Being able to choose between good and evil is somehow supposed to be such a great thing that a lifetime of suffering would be worth it.