Oslo bombed

[Dinner]

So your system encourages you to kill more after the first one since it doesn't make a difference to your prison term?

In for a penny, in for a pound? True, but the same argument can be made against the death penalty: If a gunman kills one person then he's already eligible for the death penalty so he might as well shoot all the other people there just so no witnesses are left.

[MikeH]

Basically what germanos said.

[Uncle Sparky]

So, why just kill Osama, when you can kill tens of thousands of 'collaterals'. At least we now have free and democratic nations in Afghanistan & Iraq.

[Heraclitus]

I think this wholee thing is more or less blowback of Europe's failed domestic and foreign policy over the last 15 something years, much like the 911 attacks where, while inexcusable in a sense clearly blowback of misguided US foreign policy and intelligence efforts. Was anyone seriously not expecting native European terror groups to eventually emerge considering current trends? What's the answer? Stifle immigration debate more, more censorship, more PC, more heavy handed school lessons and propaganda about how evil native Europeans are? Yeah that will dissuade the 10% or 20% of the population who are already convinced that Western civilization is in terminal decline from paranoid fantasies. Also guess what if people believe any kind of dissent with fluffy clearly insane Multiculturalism automatically will lead to violence, the fraction that isn't dissuaded will be more accepting of it!


ABB is clearly a nut, but when you put pressure on a population its natural the weakest links will give first. If his goal was to contribute to conditions that will escalate the so far peaceful ethnic conflicts in Europe, he's certainly succeed, contributed more to bloodshed than any Muslim terrorist attack could have hoped to acheive.


I'm pretty sure this guy dosen't have a real organization behind him, he made it up for propaganda purposes or its all in his head, but in ten or twenty years time there will be ETA/IRA - like active "anti-Jihadist" groups in several parts of Europe. Islamic terrorism as well as immigrant organized crime and rioting won't be going anywhere either.. Which will only make any kind of reasonable policy unreachable via electoral means. Europe is ****ed I'm going out and drinking myself to oblivion now.

Edit: I need to seriously try and move to Canada or the Ukraine or even if I can play up grandma Israel.

[Hauldren Collider]

I like how Uncle Sparky's post is both tangential and stupid.

[SlowwHand]

Pretty much.

[giblets]

I think this wholee thing is more or less blowback of Europe's failed domestic and foreign policy over the last 15 something years, much like the 911 attacks where, while inexcusable in a sense clearly blowback of misguided US foreign policy and intelligence efforts. Was anyone seriously not expecting native European terror groups to eventually emerge considering current trends? What's the answer? Stifle immigration debate more, more censorship, more PC, more heavy handed school lessons and propaganda about how evil native Europeans are? Yeah that will dissuade the 10% or 20% of the population who are already convinced that Western civilization is in terminal decline from paranoid fantasies. Also guess what if people believe any kind of dissent with fluffy clearly insane Multiculturalism automatically will lead to violence, the fraction that isn't dissuaded will be more accepting of it!


ABB is clearly a nut, but when you put pressure on a population its natural the weakest links will give first. If his goal was to contribute to conditions that will escalate the so far peaceful ethnic conflicts in Europe, he's certainly succeed, contributed more to bloodshed than any Muslim terrorist attack could have hoped to acheive.


I'm pretty sure this guy dosen't have a real organization behind him, he made it up for propaganda purposes or its all in his head, but in ten or twenty years time there will be ETA/IRA - like active "anti-Jihadist" groups in several parts of Europe. Islamic terrorism as well as immigrant organized crime and rioting won't be going anywhere either.. Which will only make any kind of reasonable policy unreachable via electoral means. Europe is ****ed I'm going out and drinking myself to oblivion now.

Edit: I need to seriously try and move to Canada or the Ukraine or even if I can play up grandma Israel.

you sound like the guy who shot up a youth camp

[Dr Strangelove]

It's not the liberal elite who let teh muslims in, it's the conservative business people. When I was Brevik's age northern Europeans were ranting and raving about the Italians, Spanish, Portugese, Slavs and Greeks moving in and trashing their nice clean Nordic countries. Times changed, economic integration improved living standards in southern and eastern Europe and southern Europeans were replaced by Turks, north Africans, and middle easterners. If there wasn't a substantial demand for their cheap labor there wouldn't be a "muslim problem" in norther Europe.
Of course, you'd never be able to tell that to guys like Breivik. Take a look at him - he's at the edge of middle aged, handsome and yet he has no girlfriend, wife or kids? He's obviously got some serious socialization problems, he's a yuppie misfit, but I think he's projected the blame for his life failures onto muslims.

[Heraclitus]

It's not the liberal elite who let teh muslims in, it's the conservative business people. When I was Brevik's age northern Europeans were ranting and raving about the Italians, Spanish, Portugese, Slavs and Greeks moving in and trashing their nice clean Nordic countries. Times changed, economic integration improved living standards in southern and eastern Europe and southern Europeans were replaced by Turks, north Africans, and middle easterners. If there wasn't a substantial demand for their cheap labor there wouldn't be a "muslim problem" in norther Europe.
Of course, you'd never be able to tell that to guys like Breivik. Take a look at him - he's at the edge of middle aged, handsome and yet he has no girlfriend, wife or kids? He's obviously got some serious socialization problems, he's a yuppie misfit, but I think he's projected the blame for his life failures onto muslims.

Do you really think this is a new argument or one he isn't familiar with? To quote him:

Yet Marxists are not powerful enough by themselves to generate all the problems we are now facing. You would have to be pretty blind not to see the importance of business ties in relations between the West and the Islamic world, certainly in the case of Europe and the Middle East, but also with the United States and Saudi Arabia. Money makes the world go around, after all. One does not have to be a Socialist to see that the short-term interests of Big Business are not always identical to the long-term interests of the nation as a whole, especially not when it comes to immigration. Multinational corporations, which by their very definition have loyalty towards no nation, should not be allowed to direct national immigration policies.

Is capitalism always a force for freedom? It is easy for “conservatives” to think so, but is it always true?

There are several perspectives one can use when trying to understand the European Union, for instance. One is that it is somehow related to the Communist utopia and the unaccountable, transnational bureaucracy of the Soviet Union. This does make some sense, but on the other hand, the EU cannot be properly understood simply as a Marxist organisation. It has always held the backing of Big Business interests who want easy access to greater markets. They do not automatically care about national sovereignty or borders, which are vital to the continued existence of any truly free society.
I am particularly concerned over the recent attempts by various Western corporations to appease Islamic demands for sharia censorship. Both regarding the Danish cartoons and the Wilders movie in Holland, business interests have been among the most prominent in denouncing these attempts to defend Western freedoms because they care only about their market shares and not about the wider issues.

When we also know that many companies support mass immigration because they want easy access to cheap labour, including Muslim immigration, this means that they contribute to Islamisation, at home and abroad. Can we then say that capitalism is always a force for freedom? I think not. As Thomas Jefferson said, “Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.”

He blames leftist politicians (which is clearly accurate, see Labour's use of increased immigration as a political strategy in Britain) and business interests (also obviously accurate) for this cluster****.

I do agree its very strange that he was single. Socialization issues or perhaps he's on the autism spectrum (would explain why he tough his writing would be convincing even if blood was used to promote it).

[Heraclitus]

you sound like the guy who shot up a youth camp

Are you seriously saying this will be the only incident of anti-Jihadi violence? Or that there will be no more Islamic terror attacks? Or that Europe will successfully assimilate African and Arab immigrants.

Ridiculous.

You are however wrong. I disagree with him, I think genetic engineering is the key to saving the West. Once the genetics of intelligence are figured out the descendent of immigrants will be fixed up to a 100 IQ mean and a better personality profile and then it won't really matter if we speak Arabic or French or if we go to a Church or Mosque or if our skin is Black or White, because culture and civilization will follow the genes. I also don't expect anything like civli war in Western Europe for at least half a century.

[germanos]

It's not the liberal elite who let teh muslims in, it's the conservative business people. When I was Brevik's age northern Europeans were ranting and raving about the Italians, Spanish, Portugese, Slavs and Greeks moving in and trashing their nice clean Nordic countries. Times changed, economic integration improved living standards in southern and eastern Europe and southern Europeans were replaced by Turks, north Africans, and middle easterners. If there wasn't a substantial demand for their cheap labor there wouldn't be a "muslim problem" in norther Europe.
Of course, you'd never be able to tell that to guys like Breivik. Take a look at him - he's at the edge of middle aged, handsome and yet he has no girlfriend, wife or kids? He's obviously got some serious socialization problems, he's a yuppie misfit, but I think he's projected the blame for his life failures onto muslims.

Excellent post. Not the least the bit about the reason to get 'the muslims' in the first place: cheap labour for the businesses.

[Heraclitus]

What I don't get is how he would manage to run a successful business to finance his sachem or join the Freemasons (or is that like a Chess club these days? - btw conspiracy nuts must be obsessing about this ) without any social skills. Perhaps not autistic, but a sociopath who can mimic socialization when needed.

[germanos]

You are however wrong. I disagree with him, I think genetic engineering is the key to saving the West. Once the genetics of intelligence are figured out the descendent of immigrants will be fixed up to a 100 IQ mean and a better personality profile and then it won't really matter if we speak Arabic or French or if we go to a Church or Mosque or if our skin is Black or White, because culture and civilization will follow the genes. I also don't expect anything like civli war in Western Europe for at least half a century.

Breivik was clearly intelligent, so there's nothing to gain by raising his genes to IQ=100. The guy was also reasonably sociable (at least to his testimony in his manifest) so again there's little to engineer there.

The remark about no civil war in the next half century is weird coming from a Slovenian/Yugoslav where quite recently a civil war broke out for which perpetrators are still being arrested untill only a week ago.

And did that quote from your previous post come from Breivik? If so, do you agree with that?

[Hauldren Collider]

Excellent post. Not the least the bit about the reason to get 'the muslims' in the first place: cheap labour for the businesses.

Pricing wages correctly

Bringing people out of poverty

[DaShi]

We should report Hera to the Slovanian gestapo.