Mormonism: is it a cult?

[giblets]

And New York just extended marriage to homosexuals in the proper democratic fashion.

You'd have to be pretty stupid to vote for prop 8 just because you didn't like the ruling made by the court.

[Asher]

They don't think of proselytizing that way. They think they are saving your soul, and helping you. I hope this softens your thinking on it somewhat. Yes it's a bit annoying but they are trying to help you, misguided or not.

Mormonism isn't a cult any more than any other religion is a cult, and certainly not as much of a cult as scientology or moonies which exists almost explicitly to drain your money. It's based off real belief, not scam artists. Converts aren't made through coercion or questionable circumstances but through charity.

Their conservative social beliefs don't set them apart from devout members of most other religions in any way.

They are not a cult. Their religious practices are not self-destructive.

They certainly are for many people.

Religion is helpful for many people, I'm sure. It's also incredibly destructive for many people.

[Ben Kenobi]

he also can tell the difference between which things did happen and which things could have happened. Because that difference is another piece of knowledge. Lord almighty.

And I agree with you, and have stated so. Reread what I said, you've missed part of it. Stuff that did happen, did happen. What you probably meant to say is that there's a difference between things that could happen and will happen, and stuff that could happen, but will not happen.

[Lorizael]

And I agree with you, and have stated so. Reread what I said, you've missed part of it. Stuff that did happen, did happen. What you probably meant to say is that there's a difference between things that could happen and will happen, and stuff that could happen, but will not happen.

It doesn't matter! All categories of knowledge - could happen, can't happen, could have happened but didn't, couldn't have happened but did, could only happen in BK's mind - all of it, is known by a being that is OMNIscient. No matter what, an omniscient God knows it, and knows it all the time - past, present, and future - regardless of ANY variables, because that's what ****ing OMNI means. If an omniscient, omnipotent God lets something happen, it's part of that God's plan. If there is even one way in which a god does not know one facet of one insignificant piece of whatever, then that god is not omniscient. Maybe quite knowledgeable, but not omniscient. Omniscient is an absolute term and does not allow for interpretation or weaseling. Other terms do! And you can use them! But not omniscient.

[Tupac Shakur]

If an omniscient, omnipotent God lets something happen, it's part of that God's plan.

While Ben is obviously completely wrong, you're also wrong for assuming God would have a plan for everything that has, is, or will ever happen. Maybe God just doesn't give a **** about most events.

[Lorizael]

This gets into semantics, but I disagree. If an all powerful god chooses to do something, I would say that what that god has chosen to do is part of that god's plan. And one of the things a god can choose to do is not give a **** about most events.

[Tupac Shakur]

Why should God care about what happens to us? Do you care what happens to individual bacteria?

[giblets]

I think the posited God in this conversation was the Christian one. If it's just some omnipotent being then there really isn't any evidence it doesn't exist.

[Lorizael]

Why should God care about what happens to us? Do you care what happens to individual bacteria?

That analogy can only go so far, specifically because we're not omniscient. What we care about, and what we choose to know, and all of that, is very, very limited by the capacity of our brain, our psychology, etc. Assuming that a god's psychology is anything like ours is, well, silly. Of course, that can be taken the other direction, and it's silly to assume that a god would "make plans" or anything like that.

If we're talking about a god that does make plans, and does view life to be important in some way, then I think it's reasonable to believe that it choosing to either care or not care about individuals humans is a part of its plan. If we're not making such assumptions, then sure, there's no guarantee that... well... anything.

[Tupac Shakur]

Assuming that a god's psychology is anything like ours is, well, silly. Of course, that can be taken the other direction, and it's silly to assume that a god would "make plans" or anything like that. ...

If we're not making such assumptions, then sure, there's no guarantee that... well... anything.

Can we go back to defending Mormons, now?

[Ben Kenobi]

If an omniscient, omnipotent God lets something happen, it's part of that God's plan.

And I believe that there are many things which he permits to happen that are out of accordance with his plan, because he gives us true free will.

This is important to you Lori, because if it wasn't just this way, then you'd not reject him, and blame him for all the bad things in the world.

The truth, is that it all comes from us, Lori. Not him. People suck.

[Lorizael]

And I believe that there are many things which he permits to happen that are out of accordance with his plan, because he gives us true free will.

Yes, he permits something that he did on purpose. But he didn't plan it! Blergle!

This is important to you Lori, because if it wasn't just this way, then you'd not reject him, and blame him for all the bad things in the world.

Err, no. I don't reject God at all, because I have no beliefs with regards to his existence. I am framing this argument in terms of his existence, because otherwise I counter all of your arguments with "BUT GOD DOESN'T EXIST" and we don't get anywhere.

People suck.

Yes.