What is with all the manjaw women in the media?

[Al B. Sure!]

My argument is not with you, stupid annoying *******. It's with Oerdin.

[giblets]

Yes, and I don't think you're winning the argument.

[Al B. Sure!]

I don't have much recent studies to back me up on this (and I note that neither Oerdin nor you have provided ANYTHING!)... One dilemma is the intermarriage is typically only noted as with other groups, without noting whether these other groups are Anglo or not; native or immigrants. My contention is that it's only in the 3rd generation that immigrant populations intermarry but then, they typically intermarry other marginalized immigrant groups (Italians, Irish, Jews, Eastern Europeans, Hispanics, etc.). Further immigration from the old country to the ethnic enclaves (which remain freaking strong; I don't need any studies to prove this self-evident fact) can further delay later generations for intermarrying.

Here's another study regarding Hispanics:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1573-7861.2011.01239.x/abstract

Rates of Hispanic intermarriage with whites declined for the first time during the 1990s. One hypothesis, which we test here, is that the recent influx of new immigrants has provided an expanding marriage market for Hispanics, reinforced cultural and ethnic identity, and slowed the process of marital assimilation. In this article, we use data from the March Current Population Survey (1995–2008) to identify generational differences in Hispanic-white intermarriage. The results indicate that second-generation Hispanics were more likely to marry first- rather than third-generation Hispanics or whites, a pattern that was reinforced over the study period. The results suggest declining rates of intermarriage among second-generation Hispanics—a pattern that diverges sharply from those observed among third-plus-generation Hispanics, where in-marriage with other Hispanics declined over time. If couched in the language of straight line assimilation theory, third-plus-generation Hispanics are assimilating by increasingly marrying other third-generation co-ethnics and whites. On the other hand, assimilation among the second-generation is slowing down as its members increasingly reconnect to their native culture by marrying immigrants.

Just as I figured. Third generation intermarries (but note the study does not signify whether this intermarriage is with other immigrant groups [as I expect] or with Anglos) while, in the presence of additional immigrants, the second generation intensifies in-marriage.

I think this Hispanic experience in the 90's would mirror European immigrants earlier in this century when the first/second generations born in the 1920's were met with an influx of immigrants following the Second World War and that intensified in-marriage and coupled it with intermarriage with other immigrant populations.

[giblets]

I don't have much recent studies to back me up on this (and I note that neither Oerdin nor you have provided ANYTHING!)...

Or me? I thought this wasn't my argument...?

[Al B. Sure!]

It's not a study and an ******* like gribbler will marginalize it but it's telling to me that pop culture like West Side Story reinforces my point and my perceptions. Here, you have a Polish guy and a Puerto Rican girl; in the original draft, Tony was an Italian and Maria was Jewish. There was ethnic conflict in the story but, at the same time, it's telling that both versions of West Side Story positioned marginalized immigrant groups in the inter-relationship roles (Poles/Ricans, Italians/Jews).

That's what I'm saying. Where are those of English descent in Philly or New York in the ethnic neighborhoods? Do they even exist? Everyone still is today 100% Italian, Irish, Jewish, Ukrainian, etc. or a mixture of these various groups.

Even if somehow (though I don't see how) people crossed the fence, how does that make America more English if none of these Italians, Jews, etc. acknowledge any English ancestry and have no English culture affinities? My point stands that English is not a significant population in America.

Somehow my stats showing only 8% of Americans claim English descent wasn't good enough for that point. Neither was what should be self-evident that 20th century immigrants are not marrying Anglos in any serious numbers.

[giblets]

Of course they're not good enough. You have the 7% who just say they're "American", and the immigrant groups that got here a long time ago (German, Irish, African American, French, Scottish...) who have had plenty of time to marry people with English ancestry. No one claimed a majorty of Americans are primarily English, they only claimed that most Americans have at least some English ancestry, and your only counter-argument is to claim a majority of Americans have lived in ethnic enclaves in New York and Philadelphia for the last century.

[Al B. Sure!]

No one claimed a majorty of Americans are primarily English, they only claimed that most Americans have at least some English ancestry, and your only counter-argument is to claim a majority of Americans have lived in ethnic enclaves in New York and Philadelphia for the last century.

Bull****. Heraclitus is the one talking about American and Anglo sensibilities liking man-ish women. What the hell does America have to do with Anglo if you concede Americans are only tangentially and partially English?

And the vast vast majority of immigrants were here and since American population growth has been fueled by immigrants... there's a reason why, with regard to the Boston-DC zone, the region held over a fifth of the total US population midway through the 20th century.


Here's another chart. Again, self-reported ancestry but that's what would color these supposed 'Anglo' affinities.



The English only dominate in Maine and Utah.

[Cort Haus]

I have a perception that some ethnic backgrounds are more fashionable than others. There seems to be no shortage of plastic paddies claiming to be Irish because they have one Irish great-grandfather. You can hardly get more unfashionable than English in the USA, what with all the stock bad-guy Hollywood English accents, the whole George III thing, Mel Gibson, and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised if people downplay any English roots for these reasons.

[giblets]

Bull****. Heraclitus is the one talking about American and Anglo sensibilities liking man-ish women. What the hell does America have to do with Anglo if you concede Americans are only tangentially and partially English?

And the vast vast majority of immigrants were here and since American population growth has been fueled by immigrants... there's a reason why, with regard to the Boston-DC zone, the region held over a fifth of the total US population midway through the 20th century.


Here's another chart. Again, self-reported ancestry but that's what would color these supposed 'Anglo' affinities.



The English only dominate in Maine and Utah.

Where do you think the people with "American" ancestry came from? 15% English ancestry is substantially more than most countries. And I'm guessing German women are stereotypically mannish too.

[giblets]

I have a perception that some ethnic backgrounds are more fashionable than others. There seems to be no shortage of plastic paddies claiming to be Irish because they have one Irish great-grandfather. You can hardly get more unfashionable than English in the USA, what with all the stock bad-guy Hollywood English accents, the whole George III thing, Mel Gibson, and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised if people downplay any English roots for these reasons.

Americans don't actually think the English are bad guys, although English ancestry is pretty mundane.

[giblets]

Besides, Hera never even said Americans are mostly anglo, he just said that their women are manly, along with anglo women.

[Al B. Sure!]

Where do you think the people with "American" ancestry came from? 15% English ancestry is substantially more than most countries. And I'm guessing German women are stereotypically mannish too.

Actually judging from where 'American' is prevalent... Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee... I'm certain these 'Americans' are Scotch-Irish.

[Lorizael]

I have a perception that some ethnic backgrounds are more fashionable than others. There seems to be no shortage of plastic paddies claiming to be Irish because they have one Irish great-grandfather. You can hardly get more unfashionable than English in the USA, what with all the stock bad-guy Hollywood English accents, the whole George III thing, Mel Gibson, and so on.

I wouldn't be surprised if people downplay any English roots for these reasons.

You're giving us Americans too much credit. We have no idea who George III was.

[Whoha]

Actually judging from where 'American' is prevalent... Kentucky, West Virginia, Tennessee... I'm certain these 'Americans' are Scotch-Irish.

There are tons of English, German and French sounding city names used in Kentucky and Tennessee so there are more than just Scotch-Irish there.

[Al B. Sure!]

There are tons of English, German and French sounding city names used in Kentucky and Tennessee so there are more than just Scotch-Irish there.

Regardless, are all of those 'Americans' predominately English? Clearly not. Is English the predominant ethnicity in America? Clearly not. Would people whose ancestors immigrated here in the 20th century have English ancestry? No.

Therefore, Oerdin is wrong.