What is with all the manjaw women in the media?

[Al B. Sure!]

I can't get the article; only the first page and the abstract:

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2781107

The pattern of assortative mating among European immigrants and native whites is examined by ethnicity and generation using a national sample drawn from the 1910 census manuscripts and a sample of marriages registered in New York City between 1908 and 1912. The pattern of assortative mating is virtually identical in the two data sets. Endogamy was strong for all groups examined, but was castelike for the "new" ethnics from eastern and southern Europe. Marriages between "old" and "new" ethnics were especially rare. The pattern of ethnic intermarriage was nearly identical for men and women. Within ethnic groups there was also strong generational endogamy: immigrants tended to marry other immigrants and second-generation ethnics tended to marry others in the second generation. While the existence of ethnic and generational endogamy at the turn of the century is not surprising, its strength has not previously been estimated with appropriate statistical techniques. Further, these techniques reveal more detailed features of the pattern of assortative mating that are not well known and provide important facts for theories of immigrant assimilation and assortative mating.

[Al B. Sure!]

Maybe California is coloring your expectations but here on the East Coast, ethnic enclaves remain strong even 3-4 generations after immigration.

[giblets]

The data used for that study is 100 years old. Plenty of time for Sicilians to marry white people since then.

[Heraclitus]

Sicilians are White, as in Caucasian Christian Europeans. Wogs where considered inferior to WASPs (duh, every European ethnicity considers the others inferor), but the notion that Irish, Eastern Europeans and Souther Europeans weren't considered Whites by all but the fringe is ridiculous. They also thought of themselves as White.

The 1924 immigration act was meant to protect the North-western European character of the US, not its White character (I mean come on they didn't even bother to forbid Latin American immigration). People like Madison Grant called the group "Nordic" not "White". Just because the Irish and Italians where dumb lazy foreign Papist drunks dosen't mean they where generally considered nonWhite.

Even those interested in what is now known as scientific racism and even making distinctions between European nationalities pointed out that nearly all are a mix of at least two of the subgroups (Alpine, Nordic and Mediterranean stock). White some fetishized Nordics (proclaiming Alpine to be partially Asiatic), while some others claimed Mediterranean where more creative than Nordics or Alpines these where all White.

[Al B. Sure!]

I'M NOT MAKING A STATEMENT ABOUT 'WHITE-NESS', you racist fool!

I'm talking intermarriage!

Immigrants came to America and married other immigrants, usually of the same origin, since they were relegated to the same ethnic enclaves. This held true for the second-generation but begins to diminish in the third-generation.

For post-World War 2 immigrants (which was my point to begin with), that third generation is now.

I HIGHLY doubt all those Ukrainians that live in Northeast Philly or some of the more recent Italians in Italian-American enclaves in South Philly have any English blood. Or, they married other recent immigrants (like Italians with Jews and Irish; Italian-Irish and Italian-Jewish are two very common mixtures I've seen from people my generation here in Philly)

[Heraclitus]

I'M NOT MAKING A STATEMENT ABOUT 'WHITE-NESS', you racist fool!

I was responding to #33.

The data used for that study is 100 years old. Plenty of time for Sicilians to marry white people since then.

[Al B. Sure!]

Oh. Sorry.

[Felch]

Albie, those areas in Philly were Irish and Italian before WWII. Look at when the parishes were founded.

http://archphila.org/parishes/phl-n.htm

http://archphila.org/parishes/phl-s.htm

There are a smattering of post 1945 churches, but most seem to be from the 19th and early 20th century. Back when the biggest waves of Irish, Italian and Slavic immigration were going on.

[Al B. Sure!]

Well there you go. Even older and those Italians have not until my generation mixed with many other populations; other Italians and other immigrant groups, yes; Native English, no.

I'm just thinking of all the last names of people I know... very few (who aren't Black) have English names. I realize that only traces a paternal descent but it's telling.

Everyone white in Philly is a Molieri, a Greenberg, a Polinksy, a Cipriano...

[Felch]

My godmother is Irish, and my godfather is Italian. Even in the 70s that was mildly scandalous in Philly.

[Al B. Sure!]

My godmother is Irish, and my godfather is Italian. Even in the 70s that was mildly scandalous in Philly.

There you go. My point exactly.

There's quite a few Irish-Italian mutts now-a-days in my generation, though.

This only reinforces my point that 20th century immigrants were hesitant to inter-marry (really only until recently and the third-generation) and then, it was only to inter-marry with other marginalized immigrant groups like Irish, Jews, Poles, etc.

20th century immigrants rarely intermarried with the English population.

Your average Italian-American on the East Coast has 0 English blood. I'm positive on this, despite Oerdin's dubious claims.


America is ethnically not Anglo. We're all over the place but the descendants of our Puritan forebears are not many.

[Felch]

I'd say that while it's true in Philly, it's not the case elsewhere. Suburban communities are much less conscious of ethnicity.

[giblets]

America is ethnically not Anglo. We're all over the place but the descendants of our Puritan forebears are not many.

Puritans weren't the only Englishmen who came here

[Al B. Sure!]

I'd say that while it's true in Philly, it's not the case elsewhere. Suburban communities are much less conscious of ethnicity.

Well that's why I said Oerdin's California upbringing is coloring his perception.

Philly, New York, Boston... you know, places that actually matter and that received most of the immigrants... I'm right.

[giblets]

Yeah, if "I'm right" means "I referenced a study that used data from 100 years ago and talked about my personal experience in Philly".