Cheap GPUs render strong passwords useless

[ColdWizard]

His work is never done

[loinburger]

dive headlong into the world of art

Have you ever written/designed a non-toy program in your life? If not, then why the hell are you talking as though you know the first thing about computer science?

One program I worked on was to extend a state space planner so that it could solve a larger set of problems in polynomial time. There was a chunk of math that involved proving that the extension ran in polynomial time (and proving that the existing system ran in exponential time to justify the extension). There was a chunk of craft that involved deciding what external API's to use, what class hierarchy to use, etc. There was no "art" portion.

Another program I worked on was to write an order entry GUI for some financial software. The only math needed was to ensure that the primitives used wouldn't be subject to overflow or underflow. The rest was a matter of crafting the class hierarchy, deciding when to use a web service and when to use a native api, etc. The only "art" portion was when they gave me a 32-bit icon that I had to convert to a 24-bit icon.

Another program I worked on was to write control software for a bunch of mobile radio relays. The math involved proving that the relays would reach a steady state (as opposed to oscillating until they ran out of juice). The craft was paring everything down so that it would fit in the embedded system. There was no "art" portion.

You can't just point to a craft/science you know nothing about and say "See? That's 'art' and is therefore just as crappy as what I do!" The difference between the creativity that goes into a program that makes it a craft instead of an art is that almost all of the time there is an objective measure of success. Is a painting good, or is it bad? The answer is in the eye of the beholder. Is a program good, or is it bad? The answer lies in how easy it is to maintain, how much memory it consumes, how efficient its algorithms are, how organized its user interface is, etc. Most of the time the only thing that's in the eye of the beholder is the prettiness of the icon set.

[Dauphin]

Has Asher finished pwning people yet?

His work is never done

He's currently managing a team, across three continents and two planets, that is writing a programme that can auto-respond with pwnage. It will increase his productivity 327% (or thereabouts, the maths guys aren't available to explain it to him), giving him plenty of time to not write his own code.

[Ben Kenobi]

Have you ever written/designed a non-toy program in your life? If not, then why the hell are you talking as though you know the first thing about computer science?

One, I'm talking about managment in general being an art rather than a science.

Two, Computer science is an art. There's no empirical 'best way', but there are ways that are better than others, standards, etc.

Three, actually, yes I have. I was in honours phys and astro and we did C++ programming classes back in the day. One of my jobs was an overhaul of a inventory system, I designed a system that would sync up with the planned website and work with the existing system, while I update and expanded the overall database.

So yeah, I know a little bit about programming. I'm not an expert like the folks here, and it's not primarily what I do, but I can get it done in a pinch.

One program I worked on was to extend a state space planner so that it could solve a larger set of problems in polynomial time. There was a chunk of math that involved proving that the extension ran in polynomial time (and proving that the existing system ran in exponential time to justify the extension). There was a chunk of craft that involved deciding what external API's to use, what class hierarchy to use, etc. There was no "art" portion.

What language did you code your program in and why did you use that particular language?

Another program I worked on was to write an order entry GUI for some financial software. The only math needed was to ensure that the primitives used wouldn't be subject to overflow or underflow. The rest was a matter of crafting the class hierarchy, deciding when to use a web service and when to use a native api, etc. The only "art" portion was when they gave me a 32-bit icon that I had to convert to a 24-bit icon.

I define art to be anything which isn't empirical. Science is empirical, you can show that one technique is empirically better in all cases, then yes, it's scientific. Management isn't empirical, and neither is computer science. Yes, you use math, but the way you structure your program will depend on your own preferences, how you were taught, the desires of the client, etc.

You can't just point to a craft/science you know nothing about and say "See? That's 'art' and is therefore just as crappy as what I do!" The difference between the creativity that goes into a program that makes it a craft instead of an art is that almost all of the time there is an objective measure of success.

There's no difference in good computer science craftsmanship and say, good plumbing craftsmenship, and good writing craftsmenship. All are pretty similar to one another in a deep sense, even if they are vastly different in the exterior.

[loinburger]

Two, Computer science is an art. There's no empirical 'best way', but there are ways that are better than others, standards, etc.

Using this definition, name five things that don't qualify as "art."

What language did you code your program in and why did you use that particular language?

LISP. The original was in LISP, so it made sense for the extension to be in LISP.

I define art to be anything which isn't empirical. Science is empirical, you can show that one technique is empirically better in all cases, then yes, it's scientific.

Which is the best model of the physical universe: general relativity, or quantum mechanics? Which is empirically better in all cases?

[Asher]

He's currently managing a team, across three continents and two planets, that is writing a programme that can auto-respond with pwnage. It will increase his productivity 327% (or thereabouts, the maths guys aren't available to explain it to him), giving him plenty of time to not write his own code.

[Ben Kenobi]

I belittle you because you stopped working on a real degree because it was too difficult for you.

Yeah I was cut. So were 24 others and I was the last to go. 6 survived, and I have no idea where they are now or what they have done with their careers. It was very hard and difficult for me to accept that I simply wasn't good enough at what I was doing to get over that hump to where the other 6 were.

You got a BA degree and then couldn't get a relevant job with it.

Not in my hometown. They have let 20 percent of the current teaching staff go over and above normal attrition. Half the entire closures in the province were in my school district. The program I was enrolled in at university doesn't even exist because they shut it down a few years after I finished.

I belittle you for so many reasons that I can't even enumerate them all. I have nothing but the greatest respect for teachers -- but real teachers. I work with them every day as part of my job -- I design software used by about 5M teachers worldwide. I understand how difficult their job is, and I'm trying to make it easier for them.

Then why are you attacking me? I'm a potential client. You want to sell me on what you're buying, I'm a young and new teacher starting out. I should be the focus of any marketing efforts by your company, because if I come over, I'm likely to be a client throughout my entire professional career.

But you -- you are not a teacher.

Yes, I am a teacher Asher. As hard as that is for you to accept.

You're not even a real tutor.

Tell that to my students. I even tutored nursing students in biology, since they needed the help and there was no one else qualified who was willing to take them on. I take everybody on, regardless of how poorly they are doing. My nursing students went from 20 percent in their course to 76 and 82 by the time I was done with them. They both did so well on their first final exam, that their professor was willing to let them retake the course, and they both went on to continue being nurses.

And that's in *biology*, which is not my specialty, which I've spent very little time doing, not in maths or physics or chemistry or history or english, all which I tutored for years. I'm *good* at what I do, enough so that the teachers at the college and university would recommend to me their struggling students so that they could survive their program.

You're a guy with a degree you can't use, financed by the Canadian taxpayers, "tutoring" kids illegally in Texas.

I'm a guy who got hired to teach Catholic kids in TX in a private Catholic school. That means that I'm considered to be a success by the alumni measurement, and I am using my degree. You don't think that the same teachers at the College and the University helped me get this position? As for *taking* from the Canadian government, I daresay that I've repaid them through the tutoring that I did and the kids that will go on in their respective programs.

And if your Poly posting is anything to go by, you are NOT helping them. What you're doing is actually hurting the kids.

Uh, I got an award for being the best for the year. Yeah, I am a terrible teacher. Had the highest class average on the Texas class assessment.

[Ben Kenobi]

Which is the best model of the physical universe: general relativity, or quantum mechanics? Which is empirically better in all cases?

The GUT of course. Or maybe you're a fan of strings? We should get KH in here to tell us we are fools.

[loinburger]

1. There are multiple GUTs. Which is empirically the best one?
2. GUTs do not address gravity and conflict with relativity

Any definition of "art" that includes physics is crap. It's possible that mathematics doesn't fit your definition, but that would be the only scientific field that does so.

[Asher]

Yeah I was cut. So were 24 others and I was the last to go. 6 survived, and I have no idea where they are now or what they have done with their careers. It was very hard and difficult for me to accept that I simply wasn't good enough at what I was doing to get over that hump to where the other 6 were.

Now the truth comes out. You repeatedly claimed before you chose to switch to an arts degree because it was more interesting, blahblahblah.

Then why are you attacking me? I'm a potential client. You want to sell me on what you're buying, I'm a young and new teacher starting out. I should be the focus of any marketing efforts by your company, because if I come over, I'm likely to be a client throughout my entire professional career.

No, you're not a client. School districts and governments are my clients. I somehow doubt you have $10,000 to spend on one of our products. Most customers buy the boards by the hundreds or thousands.

Yes, I am a teacher Asher. As hard as that is for you to accept.

Which teachers' college did you go to again?

I'm a guy who got hired to teach Catholic kids in TX in a private Catholic school. That means

That means you are catholic and they want to pay someone under the table. They wanted someone with no understanding of science or logic so you can regurgitate the Church's position on anything.

Uh, I got an award for being the best for the year. Yeah, I am a terrible teacher. Had the highest class average on the Texas class assessment.

Since you claim to run your own tutoring company, I'm completely shocked to hear that you awarded yourself the award as best teacher of the year.

[Ben Kenobi]

Using this definition, name five things that don't qualify as "art."

Math, Physics, Astronomy, Chemistry, Geology, about half of biology, (genetics, cells, molecular, physiology I'd consider to be empirical) phylogeny, anatomy, ecology I would consider to be art.

Engineering in the 'applied physics part'. Statics and material physics (stresses, bending motions, etc). Lots of engineering is 'best practices', standards and conventions that will vary depending on the field and where you go, regulations in a particular country, etc.

Computer science in the maths part, it's basically applied mathematics with logic.

Philosophy in the logic part is empirical. A substantial portion of philosophy is empirical, ie, definitions of empirical, philosophy of science, etc.

Some parts of English, ie linguistics.

Some parts of History, most of our research techniques are wholly empirical. The art part comes in interpreting the data that we get. Some schools of history place an emphasis on empiricism such as von Ranke.

About half of Geography. Cartography mostly.

Economics, really depends on the school. It's a young discipline.

Psychology, the physiology parts of it. Beyond that, not much.

I'd say that most disciplines have some empiricism in them. But I'd say that Math, Physics, Chemistry, Astronomy and Geology are pretty much the 'hard' sciences.

[Fake Boris]

Why do you say that philosophical logic is empirical?

[Ben Kenobi]

Now the truth comes out. You repeatedly claimed before you chose to switch to an arts degree because it was more interesting.

Uh, no. I've been pretty honest that I simply didn't make the cut. You just said that "I wasn't good enough", and that's exactly what I said before. There was a large gap between me and the rest. I passed, but not by much and that was the indication to me that I wasn't a good fit for the program.

School districts and governments are my clients. I somehow doubt you have $10,000 to spend on one of our products. Most customers buy the boards by the hundreds or thousands.

Indeed, and they purchase them because the teachers think that they are a waste of money?

Which teachers' college did you go to again?

I don't need one to teach where I teach. My degree at UNBC is sufficient for them.

That means you are catholic and they want to pay someone under the table. They wanted someone with no understanding of science or logic so you can regurgitate the Church's position on anything.

They wanted someone who had a degree in history, and some prior teaching experience, and was a faithful Catholic. My references who got me my job was my priest up in Canada, and my teaching friends at the university and the college.

I'm completely shocked to hear that you awarded yourself the award as best teacher of the year.

Uh, my boss did. Got a bonus too.

[Ben Kenobi]

Why do you say that philosophical logic is empirical?

Because there's only one right answer.

[Asher]

Uh, no. I've been pretty honest that I simply didn't make the cut.

No.

Indeed, and they purchase them because the teachers think that they are a waste of money?

Ben, the product sells itself. ****, in many school districts (typically under-funded US ones), the PTA gets together to raise money to buy the damn boards themselves. I don't need to sell it to you, you're not even a teacher.

I don't need one to teach where I teach. My degree at UNBC is sufficient for them.

You are not a teacher. You are a faithful Catholic babysitter.

Uh, my boss did. Got a bonus too.

You lie so much it's hard to keep your stories straight.