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Originally posted by DaShi
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**** the environment, **** windmills, **** Asher's natural gas! GOD CREATED EARTH FOR US TO RAPE IT TO DEATH.If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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I, personally don't care about that, but I do love that HC made my point and he doesn't even know it. He claimed teens had been priced out of the market in California due to the $8.15 minimum wage even though I had showed him at least one local chain (I mentioned it due to knowing something about it) has tons of teens who were willing to work largely because the pay was higher. If the teens had fewer job skills then the illegals or recent legal immigrants then surely they would be getting payed less than the 35 year old Mexican guy. Yet, the white (and Asian) teens working at In-N-Out start off at $10 per hour and often make $12-$13 per hour while the Hispanic adults are stuck at or just above minimum wage. Ergo his argument is false and he doesn't even understand that basic fact.Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
The reason the American born teens are getting paid higher wages is because they know they can hold out for a higher paying job while the recent immigrants are often desperate for any work and will work even for low wages if someone would hire them. Not that any of this has anything to do with the minimum wage debate and instead I just want to make it clear HC is being a ****.Try http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Not true, Kuci.Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
1) Minimum wages don't help anyone who makes more than the minimum wage (i.e. the vast majority of workers!). The policy is not one of prosperity; the purpose is to make some very poor people a little bit less poor.
As labor activist and union leader Edward T. Hanley said: "The purpose of the minimum wage is to . . . provide a floor from which we can upgrade your compensation through collective bargaining."
I think, I will research if interested, that there have been studies that showed wage inflation in the next rung of hourly workers following a minimum wage increase. Regardless, unions love minimum wage increases and are the political lobbying groups most involved in trying to get them done, even though you would never see a minimum wage earning union member ever.
I can tell you as well that as a manager in the fast food industry, my hourly rate went up when the rates of the employees shot up 40%..."Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben KenobiComment
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Originally posted by Kuciwalker View Post
1) Minimum wages don't help anyone who makes more than the minimum wage (i.e. the vast majority of workers!). The policy is not one of prosperity; the purpose is to make some very poor people a little bit less poor.
2) Minimum wages do help the people who are employed at the minimum wage - presumably they would earn slightly less if it were repealed. Okay, it is helping some poor people.
3) Minimum wages actively hurt anyone who would be employed but for the minimum wage - these people are even poorer than the group in (2)! So helping some poor people comes at least partially at the expense of even poorer people.
4) If, to alleviate the problem in (3), you make exceptions to the minimum wage for people who commonly fall in that group, then you have effectively repealed the minimum wage.
Honestly, this is pure BS. Point 1), yeah, the don't care. 2) this is the only point that you got right. 3) I assume that you think "work won't be done because it's too darn costly" - well, I think that most of that will be done just at a higher payment.With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Sorry, AS, you are right in general, but I didn't want to add a bunch of caveats for what I expect are second-order effects.
xpostComment
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By the way, any effect on increased consumption should be noted... the thing is that minimum wage earners, whether working at Burger King or Wal-Mart, or whatever else, have a tendency to also shop at places with low-wage employees.
An increase in wages could precipitate increased purchases at the very businesses that now have to pay higher wages."Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
"I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben KenobiComment
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God, you're stupid. The work that's "done just at a higher payment" is group 2. And it is absurd on its face to say that group 3 doesn't exist.Originally posted by BlackCat View PostComment
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Just curious, where do you think that companies get their incomes from ?Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View PostWith or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Thus the minimum wage even if it has it's problems. I suppose we also attempt to do that with the earned income tax credit which is essentially a free handout to people who work low paying jobs because it gives them money even if they didn't actually net pay any income taxes. Welfare could also do that job but then you run into the problems with disincentive work ("I make more on welfare than I would at that job so I will just stay on welfare" etc...). All of these are attempts to solve the problem you and Dashi spoke about and all the offered solutions have pluses and minuses which have to be considered.Originally posted by Kuciwalker View PostTry http://wordforge.net/index.php for discussion and debate.Comment
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Alright blackcat. We are talking about different universes here, so we will never understand each other. Candyland and the real world were never supposed to meet this intimately, so I must stop discussing this with you for the sake of a. my sanity and b. a universe-ending paradox like they have in those cheesy star trek episodes.If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Nuking Congo won't have any effect - nuking virginia would probably be way more effectiveOriginally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.
Steven WeinbergComment
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Nuking Virginia would result in the apocalypse because we'd have our nuclear missile submarines retaliate as per mutually assured destruction. So, no.Originally posted by BlackCat View PostNuking Congo won't have any effect - nuking virginia would probably be way more effectiveIf there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
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Yes.Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
Oh and this one is called inflation. You were paid more than the minimum wage earners of today.Originally posted by KrazyHorse View Post
at spoiled rich.
By the way, I've worked for minimum wage before. And until I was 29 years old I worked for a money wage of less than 12$ an hour.Comment
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