CanPol: May(?) 2011 Election. Vote today!

[Wezil]

I have no doubt there will be yet another neverendum. You guys only need to win one for it to stop.

As to the question asked:

1980 - ""The Government of Quebec has made public its proposal to negotiate a new agreement with the rest of Canada, based on the equality of nations; this agreement would enable Quebec to acquire the exclusive power to make its laws, levy its taxes and establish relations abroad — in other words, sovereignty — and at the same time to maintain with Canada an economic association including a common currency; any change in political status resulting from these negotiations will only be implemented with popular approval through another referendum; on these terms, do you give the Government of Quebec the mandate to negotiate the proposed agreement between Quebec and Canada?"

Complete and utter bafflegab bull****.


1995 - "Do you agree that Québec should become sovereign after having made a formal offer to Canada for a new economic and political partnership within the scope of the bill respecting the future of Québec and of the agreement signed on June 12, 1995?."

Better, but still misleading.


Why not "Do you wish the Government of Quebec to negotiate separation from the country of Canada?"?

A simple yes or no question that makes clear what is on the table.

[Wezil]

The plan of course is to convince Quebec voters they can have an independent nation but still retain all the benefits of being a Canadian. It's tripe and the separatists know it, but they also know they cannot garner anywhere near 50% on an honest question so they will mislead the voters to get the result they want. At that point the die is cast and those that believed the bull**** will be "lobsters in a pot", as Parizeau called them.

[Fake Boris]

You are assuming that the federalist side doesn't campaign.

You are also assuming that people don't understand that separation and sovereignty are synonyms.

Separation isn't a hot topic in Canada, but it is in Quebec. People do understand very well what it involves.

[Wezil]

You are assuming that the federalist side doesn't campaign.

Sure they do. What's your point?

You are also assuming that people don't understand that separation and sovereignty are synonyms.

Then why not ask a simple, straightforward question?

Separation isn't a hot topic in Canada, but it is in Quebec. People do understand very well what it involves.

Based on your arguments here it is clear that they don't.

The biggest misconception is the reaction in the rest of Canada to a vote of separation. This has been pointed out to you several times already in this thread yet you still refuse to acknowledge it.

[Fake Boris]

Quebec imported $60B worth of goods and services from other Canadian provinces last year.

Only an idiot could believe that the federal government would shut down the border between Quebec and Ontario.

What can you do to prevent us from using the Canadian currency?

EDIT: not sure it's that much. Though it was $40B in 1998.

[Wezil]

No one is saying the border would be "shut down". Membership in NAFTA (and other agreements to which Canada is a party to) would be problematic.

[Wezil]

And yes, an independent Quebec can still continue to use the Canadian currency (another separatist half-truth) but what is not talked about of course is how you lose any influence you have on monetary policy through the Bank of Canada. A Peurto Rico of sorts.

[Fake Boris]

Agreed, this is an issue.

Don't worry though. Every possible threat has been made by federalist campaigns.

[Fake Boris]

No one is saying the border would be "shut down". Membership in NAFTA (and other agreements to which Canada is a party to) would be problematic.

Quebec wouldn't declare its independence right after the vote.

Supposedly it would take 1-2 year, until international issues have been resolved.

[Wezil]

Don't worry though. Every possible threat has been made by federalist campaigns.

I can see how being honest may be perceived as a threat. Cite me a dishonest example and I will condemn it.

[Wezil]

Quebec wouldn't declare its independence right after the vote.

Supposedly it would take 1-2 year, until international issues have been resolved.

An entirely argumentative sort of issue. No one really knows what will happen. Prominent separatists have talked of unilateral declarations immediately following a "yes" vote.

[Wezil]

Why can't we get back to bashing Harper? It's you and me against the Albertans.

[Fake Boris]

I can see how being honest may be perceived as a threat. Cite me a dishonest example and I will condemn it.

Lies and dishonest threats:
- threats about the Canadian passport
- fractioning of Quebec's territory
- threats about the Canadian currency
- threats about NAFTA (it is going to be Washington's decision, face it)
- edit: threats about businesses leaving. If you're doing profitable business in Quebec, you would be stupid to shut it down because there are negociations going on in Ottawa.

The only meaningful threat is that of First Nations refusing to adhere. We cannot deny them what we seek. However - if Canada recognizes their right to stay within Canada, they have to recognize their right to become fully independent. This is a burning potato.

[Wezil]

You make no cites, but I'll work with what you posted.

Passport - I'm not sure what the threat is but let me guess "Independent Quebec can't use Canadian passports"? What is threatening about that? I guess you could use them until they expired (I doubt we would invade and confiscate) providing of course the countries you plan to travel to will still accept them, but good luck getting new ones issued. We don't issue our passports to citizens of foreign countries.

Divisible Quebec - If Canada is divisible why isn't Quebec?

Currency - Didn't we already deal with that? Didn't you already concede the point?

NAFTA - What threat? Your comment on Washington concedes there will be a decision to be made. Was that a Parizeau moment of unintentional honesty?

Natives - So you are conceding Quebec is divisible?

Your list of "dishonest" threats is rapidly dwindling.

[Fake Boris]

Passport: the threat is that the international community would not recognize them. Very unlikely, at least in the short term. Besides, Canada does allow for multiple citizenship. Imagine some loyalists would like to get back to Toronto - they would be locked in?

Currency: most people have no ****ing clue what a monetary policy is. The dishonest threat (we've heard it) is that Canadian currency would be confiscated.

Divisibility of Quebec: use common sense. The Crees are a nation, the Innus are a nation, Quebec is, the ballots of a polling station are not.

NAFTA: it's no one's interest to abrogate it. 'It's the economy, stupid.'