Wisconsin Takes A Stand For Fiscal Sanity

[Wezil]

It's deeper than that (both the problem and his reason for not addressing it).

Expiration of the tax cuts were not going to do it anyway. Where's the talk of realistic solutions to the problem?

The reason he won't talk about it is, of course, politics. The American public prefers leaders that ignore the problem. It will take some sort of crisis before any politician will be honest about it.

[C0ckney]

it's not just the american public though. politicians everywhere tell people what they want to hear and people lap it up.

[Wezil]

True that.

For most of us it doesn't matter though.

[DaShi]

Then you have the organizations that outright lie or manipulate data to promote the agendas of their wealthy backers. How are people supposed to make an informed decision?

[Kuciwalker]

gribbler: if what the legislators were doing were "within the law" then they wouldn't need to flee the jurisdiction of the state police to do it.

Arrian: re #237

As I mentioned earlier, the purpose of collective bargaining is to protect workers from exploitation by employers, who are assumed to have more market power/leverage. We don't need to give public employees collective bargaining powers to protect them from exploitation by ourselves. If we don't want to exploit them then it is that simple, just don't. If we do want to 'exploit' them then we can just remove their collective bargaining powers first, since they are a creation of the legislature.

Thus, public sector unions only serve two purposes: 1) to serve as an institutional block against the voters' desire to 'exploit' public workers, 2) to serve as an organized political lobby for increased public spending. In both cases, they are effectively thwarting the will of the voters.

There isn't anything wrong with (1) in itself; I'm glad that the will of the voters to ban flag burning is thwarted by the First Amendment. But if public sector unions were open about (1) then I suspect they would be a lot less popular.

[DaShi]

Thus, public sector unions only serve two purposes: 1) to serve as an institutional block against the voters' desire to 'exploit' public workers, 2) to serve as an organized political lobby for increased public spending. In both cases, they are effectively thwarting the will of the voters.

There isn't anything wrong with (1) in itself; I'm glad that the will of the voters to ban flag burning is thwarted by the First Amendment. But if public sector unions were open about (1) then I suspect they would be a lot less popular.

It's not the voters' desire to exploit the workers. No candidate runs on worker exploitation, just as no employer advertises that to recruiters. The exploitation comes from private influence in the government which is a far greater threat to the will of the voters.

[Hauldren Collider]

Really? What private influence is that? Is it supposed to protect employees from ******* bosses or something?

[giblets]

gribbler: if what the legislators were doing were "within the law" then they wouldn't need to flee the jurisdiction of the state police to do it.

If leaving the state in order to break the quorum were illegal then they would face legal consequences.

[DaShi]

Really? What private influence is that? Is it supposed to protect employees from ******* bosses or something?

I don't understand your question.

[The Mad Monk]

I will give you one thing though, the Tea Party types are a bunch of intellectually dishonest wingnuts. The idea the deficit problem can be addressed without touching defence or social programs is simply absurd.

I don't think it's the tea party that's insisting on that. It's the mainstream pols of both parties that have defense projects in some of their states, and the elderly in all of their states.

[Hauldren Collider]

If leaving the state in order to break the quorum were illegal then they would face legal consequences.

Illinois won't extradite fleeing legislators. There is no criminal penalty but obviously there is some legal ramification or else they wouldn't have to flee the Wisconsin State Police. Duh.

[The Mad Monk]

I already explained that.

[DinoDoc]

Interestingly enough...

It’s day four of exile for Wisconsin’s Democratic state senators, who crossed state lines in order to stall the expedited passage of Gov. Scott Walker’s (R) budget proposal. Although many of the governor’s supporters have called on them to come back to Madison, Democrats are ready to stick it out in Rockford, Ill. until Walker agrees to negotiate.

“We’ll be here until Gov. Walker decides that he wants to talk,” said state Sen. Tim Carpenter (D) in an interview with The Huffington Post on Saturday. He added that so far, the governor refuses to meet with them or even return the phone calls from members of the Democratic caucus.

Walker Holds His Ground

Madison, Wis. – Hundreds of protesters continue to occupy the capitol, d 14 Democratic state senators remain roosted in Illinois, stalling consideration of his budget-repair bill. But Gov. Scott Walker, a first-term Republican, tells National Review Online that he will not blink. “By the end of this week, we will have a bill passed,” he pledges.

Nice game of chicken we have here. I wonder who will blink first. I'm also curious what legal options he's referring to in order to force them back.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I will give you one thing though, the Tea Party types are a bunch of intellectually dishonest wingnuts. The idea the deficit problem can be addressed without touching defence or social programs is simply absurd.

As far as I know the tea party has been vocal about all programs being on the table inclusive of defense and entitilement reform. The fact that the GOP is not broaching these subjects is creating a good deal of friction.

[Kuciwalker]

If leaving the state in order to break the quorum were illegal then they would face legal consequences.

Are you an idiot? Do you understand the concept of jurisdiction?