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  • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
    Documentation please.
    Are you actually going to deny this? Do you really want me to embarrass you?

    Actually, no, I'm sick of chasing after your erroneous assertions.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by MOBIUS View Post
      I do. You're a climate change denier - case closed!

      Mobby, as usual, you are wrong. No climate change denial from my side - climate is changing as it always have. You can't win since you are fighting a lost war (though, isn't that welsh personated )
      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

      Steven Weinberg

      Comment


      • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
        Mobby, as usual, you are wrong. No climate change denial from my side - climate is changing as it always have.
        Ah that old chestnut. Climate changes, therefore ACC is impossible.

        It is the rate of change that is of concern, and AGW theory explains it.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
          Are you actually going to deny this? Do you really want me to embarrass you?

          Actually, no, I'm sick of chasing after your erroneous assertions.
          I really don't think that you can embarass me, but please try. I assume that you are reffereing to the fact that continious heating has paused for some not known reason.
          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

          Steven Weinberg

          Comment


          • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
            If you are really interested in the subject, then I reccomend this :

            http://climateclash.com/2011/01/15/g...y-temperature/
            I'm really struggling to see how this supports your argument at all. Did someone point you to it and say "See, it's all a lie" and you took their word for it?
            Last edited by ricketyclik; February 11, 2011, 23:22. Reason: Took out a link in the quote I wasn't referring to.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
              I assume that you are reffereing to the fact that continious heating has paused for some not known reason.
              OK, now I'll pull it on you. Demonstrate that continuous heating has paused.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
                Ah that old chestnut. Climate changes, therefore ACC is impossible.

                It is the rate of change that is of concern, and AGW theory explains it.
                No. the AGW theory doesn't explain it. You think that just because the graphs of AGW matches, then it's true, but while it may be so, it isn't nesseacarily so.

                If you have bothered to read the links I provided, then you also know that there are severe faults in the models that are use as evidence for the AGW theory.

                Btw., if you know something about science, then you also know that piling up evidence isn't interesting - it's the experiments/research that tries to contradict the theory that is important, because a scientific theory may be supported by hundreds of supportive results, but can be killed by just one that displays it's wrong.

                Unfortunatedly, it's considered "bad science" to try to falsify the AGW theory, so hansen et al has big days.

                Back to topic (sorry if I got carried away) - the AGW theory, or rather the models used to prove it, has to be modified every year to match the actual climate change.
                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                Steven Weinberg

                Comment


                • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                  No. the AGW theory doesn't explain it. You think that just because the graphs of AGW matches, then it's true, but while it may be so, it isn't nesseacarily so.

                  If you have bothered to read the links I provided, then you also know that there are severe faults in the models that are use as evidence for the AGW theory.

                  Btw., if you know something about science, then you also know that piling up evidence isn't interesting - it's the experiments/research that tries to contradict the theory that is important, because a scientific theory may be supported by hundreds of supportive results, but can be killed by just one that displays it's wrong.

                  Unfortunatedly, it's considered "bad science" to try to falsify the AGW theory, so hansen et al has big days.

                  Back to topic (sorry if I got carried away) - the AGW theory, or rather the models used to prove it, has to be modified every year to match the actual climate change.
                  Bull****. Increased GG concentration = more heat. That hasn't been modified EVER.

                  Detailed global circulation models attempting to predict the outcomes of increased heat do have to be modified, as more is understood and discovered about atmospheric (including oceans) mechanisms, but the basic science has yet to show any cracks.

                  These GCM's aren't used as proof, but as tools to try to forecast what will happen as a result of global warming, and yes, they have a way to go. I wouldn't be surprised if they can never accurately forecast detailed outcomes.

                  I've read your links, and I've yet to read any science that counters Planck's law, or basic thermodynamic theory.

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
                    I'm really struggling to see how this supports your argument at all. Did someone point you to it and say "See, it's all a lie" and you took their word for it?
                    No, I used my education and knowledge to figure it out - that is where I probably differ from other - I understand the math, I can understand the models, and I can see/understand the flaws when brighter minds than me explain them.

                    I know that there are brighter minds than me (no welsh though), but they are not fallible. That said, I'm certainly not able to claim that people smarter than me are rigth or wrong, but it gives me the possibility to evaluate their claims and make a descision on whom I consider most sane.

                    My opinion has never been based on wich professor has claimed something, but solely upon what what science has produced (including questions).
                    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                    Steven Weinberg

                    Comment


                    • So tell me, how exactly does the paper support your thesis?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
                        I've read your links, and I've yet to read any science that counters Planck's law, or basic thermodynamic theory.
                        Yep, that is someting that you certainly won't find - if you read the Curry site, you will find that ALL agree on this. The scary thing is that you think you will find such - you really think that non AGW'ers doesn't think that proven scientific results arent to be trusted.
                        With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                        Steven Weinberg

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by ricketyclik View Post
                          So tell me, how exactly does the paper support your thesis?
                          Actually, it doesn't as such, it's the coments that does. That, thogh doesn't change the fact that it's a pretty good explanation of some basic scienfics.
                          With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                          Steven Weinberg

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                            ...you really think that non AGW'ers doesn't think that proven scientific results arent to be trusted.
                            To parse, for my own benefit

                            you think that .. non AGW'ers.. doesn't think that proven scientific results aren't.. to be trusted.

                            I think that ..... denialists....... don't think that proven scientific results aren't .... to be trusted.

                            "I think that denialists think that proven scientifc results are to be trusted".

                            Quite the opposite actually. I think that denialists don't trust science as far as they can spit it.

                            So what are you saying? That you believe GG's cause warming. You believe the planet to be warming. But... what exactly?

                            Comment


                            • Scrap "nt" in arent and it makes sense - crist, what's the problem with you ?
                              With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                              Steven Weinberg

                              Comment


                              • I do not know whether the globe is warming or not warming. That said I would suggest that common sense dictates that there are certain actions we do need to take regardless of whether or not one believes the globe is warming due to human actions. These actions include, but are not limited to:
                                - cutting pollution (reduce acid rain, smog etc)
                                - reducing our dependence on fossil fuels (we must run out eventually)
                                - researching "clean" energy sources (to cut pollution and dependence on fossil fuels)
                                - management and preservation of eco-systems
                                - not dumping toxic waste or other rubbish in waterways or otherwise scattering it about the landscape

                                Edited to insert the word "not" which was inadvertently omitted. See Blackcats post below pointing out absence of word "not".
                                Last edited by Egbert; February 13, 2011, 00:26.

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