Religion: Real or Fake

[Kidlicious]

Corrected. It can't be anything else when even you claim others' belief as your primary proof.

This is why I call people idiots. Really it's hyperbole, because my true argument is that you are unreasonable, not stupid. I'm trying to make a point here, not be cruel. Who would really care if I call people stupid or not, everyone know I'm stupid right?

But you claim to not believe anything unless there is evidence, and you believe that life started without the cause of an intelligent design (chemicals came together on their own or whatever). There is no evidence of that, yet you believe. You aren't a sceptic as you claim. Indeed, who truely is a sceptic? It's not human nature. Do you believe in yourself, in your consciousness? I've got news for you there is no evidence (not the kind that you require) that consciousness exists.

[Docfeelgood]

A man has got to believe in something.

[Kidlicious]

If God is omnipotent in a logic-breaking way (which the problem of evil would seem to suggest), then logic cannot be applied to the question of his existence.

woot!

[Docfeelgood]

I once saw a dog try to hump a cat.

[Imran Siddiqui]

Ironically, it is precisely because of my open-mindedness that I despise organised religion.

Yes, you are so open minded, that your brain fell out.

[giblets]

If God is omnipotent in a logic-breaking way (which the problem of evil would seem to suggest), then logic cannot be applied to the question of his existence.

So the god of the Christians isn't logically coherent? That doesn't help their case.

[Jon Miller]

I didn't say an evolutionist or cosmologist should believe aliens do not exist. I just think the most reasonable position is that they could exist. I don't think one should believe aliens do exist until we have direct evidence that they do (unmistakable organic signatures in an exoplanet's atmosphere, radio signals telling us how to build an FTL drive, giant alien saucers blowing up the White House, etc.)

Err, all those things are extremely unlikely based on our current understanding of the universe (maybe not the organic signatures in an exoplanet).

However, based on our current understanding of the universe, aliens must exist.

If aliens don't exist, then our existence would be proof of a Creator (if nothing else, one that set up universe so we would come to exist). This is because it would imply that our existence did not come about through 'natural' means, but that our existence is extremely special and unique.

JM

[giblets]

The probability of the existence of aliens in the universe (which includes all time) has to be be 1. Unless you are maintaining that humanity is unique in all of universe. This, for the evolutionist/cosmologist/etc, is not reasonable.

If the origins of life aren't fully understood then how could anyone even attempt to attach a probability to it? The number of stars or whatever is irrelevant if you have no way of determining whether they meet the requirements for creating life.

Until someone can say with a high level of certainty something along the lines of "life forms when conditions X, Y, and Z are met", and then uses astronomical observations to estimate how many places meet those conditions, it's kind of silly to say something along the lines of "the probability of aliens existing is basically 1"

[Imran Siddiqui]

If God is omnipotent in a logic-breaking way (which the problem of evil would seem to suggest), then logic cannot be applied to the question of his existence.

Well said. God is beyond logic. Logic and reason are human centered ways of making sense of the world around us (though that doesn't mean that God didn't put in place the ability to reason or that it is frowned upon - just that there is more than simply that).

[MikeH]

Disagree. Humans aren't naturally logical or reasonable.

As the prevalence of belief in Gods demonstrates.

[Kidlicious]

So the god of the Christians isn't logically coherent? That doesn't help their case.

Jesus came to earth incognito. He came as an individual man and claimed that he is God.

[Jon Miller]

Read up on the Mediocrity principle.

JM

[MikeH]

That's the principle by which they select OT Moderators isn't it?

[Lorizael]

woot!

I've always believed that, Kid. It doesn't mean I believe that God exists.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

OT Mods are selected on Spam principle.