Religion: Real or Fake

[giblets]

Read up on the Mediocrity principle.

JM

How about you actually say what you think instead of evasively telling people to go read about something.

[giblets]

Jesus came to earth incognito. He came as an individual man and claimed that he is God.

So some average joe starts claiming to be a deity and that proves there's a deity? Maybe he was nuts.

[N35t0r]

But you claim to not believe anything unless there is evidence, and you believe that life started without the cause of an intelligent design (chemicals came together on their own or whatever). There is no evidence of that, yet you believe. You aren't a sceptic as you claim. Indeed, who truely is a sceptic? It's not human nature.

There are many things I think are true. For some of them, there isn't enough evidence or understanding to prove that they are right. I am aware of this, and do not claim that they are true. Other people have different sets of belief, and as long as they are not contradicted by actual evidence, and they don't claim that theirs is the only truth, I'm fine by it.

Do you believe in yourself, in your consciousness? I've got news for you there is no evidence (not the kind that you require) that consciousness exists.

Yes, I know. I've given a lot of thought to this along the years. If you're interested, I don't think there's a free will, for starters.

I don't think you're getting the point though... I have no problem with people believing in things, as long as they understand that it's a b]belief[/b], and can't be put forth as truth unless they have evidence for it.

[Lorizael]

However, based on our current understanding of the universe, aliens must exist.

I would say it's likely that aliens exist, but not a must based on our understanding of the universe. I was under the impression that we don't yet have good enough theories on planet formation to come up with good probabilities for the existence of aliens.

If you're simply positing that the universe is infinite so however remote the possibility of alien life, it must exist, then I suppose your argument is true. But in that case, it's certainly possible that we are the life required by an infinite universe.

If aliens don't exist, then our existence would be proof of a Creator (if nothing else, one that set up universe so we would come to exist). This is because it would imply that our existence did not come about through 'natural' means, but that our existence is extremely special and unique.

JM

I wouldn't say that's proof of a creator. It would just make our natural evolution seem very unlikely. But remember, in large universes, unlikely things do happen.

[Kidlicious]

Well said. God is beyond logic. Logic and reason are human centered ways of making sense of the world around us (though that doesn't mean that God didn't put in place the ability to reason or that it is frowned upon - just that there is more than simply that).

There is much more than that indeed. If it could be proven that God exists, then indeed everyone would believe, but of what good would it be to God?

[Docfeelgood]

I still once saw a dog try to hump a cat.

[rah]

This is why I call people idiots. Really it's hyperbole, because my true argument is that you are unreasonable, not stupid. I'm trying to make a point here, not be cruel. Who would really care if I call people stupid or not, everyone know I'm stupid right?

But you claim to not believe anything unless there is evidence, and you believe that life started without the cause of an intelligent design (chemicals came together on their own or whatever). There is no evidence of that, yet you believe. You aren't a sceptic as you claim. Indeed, who truely is a sceptic? It's not human nature. Do you believe in yourself, in your consciousness? I've got news for you there is no evidence (not the kind that you require) that consciousness exists.

More deflection on your part. I have not once said I don't believe in something unless there is evidence. I said lacking evidence I usually lean towards not believing. Not the absolute you keep claiming. AND what I believe has absolutely no impact on my original point. "Your belief in god is based on BLIND FAITH" You seem to agree with the faith part but deny the blind part.
I see no difference. I ask for proof that it's not blind and you toss out that since others believe and claim to have witnessed as proof. IT"S NOT PROOF. Your belief is totally based on faith, which is blind. This isn't about my beliefs, it's about the blind faith you seem to refuse to admit. Offer real proof otherwise which even you claim doesn't exist. Or admit the blind part.

[OneFootInTheGrave]

[Jon Miller]

I would say it's likely that aliens exist, but not a must based on our understanding of the universe. I was under the impression that we don't yet have good enough theories on planet formation to come up with good probabilities for the existence of aliens.

If you're simply positing that the universe is infinite so however remote the possibility of alien life, it must exist, then I suppose your argument is true. But in that case, it's certainly possible that we are the life required by an infinite universe.



I wouldn't say that's proof of a creator. It would just make our natural evolution seem very unlikely. But remember, in large universes, unlikely things do happen.

That life is so rare that it would happen only once in the history of the universe, but can happen (obviously), is incredulous.

The likelihood for this to happen would have to be (for all the constants and events and so on) so small as.... I can't even express it.

JM

[Imran Siddiqui]

Disagree. Humans aren't naturally logical or reasonable.

The ability to reason is hard wired in us. It is what caused humanity to survive even though we didn't evolve with claws or fur.

[Kidlicious]

There are many things I think are true. For some of them, there isn't enough evidence or understanding to prove that they are right. I am aware of this, and do not claim that they are true. Other people have different sets of belief, and as long as they are not contradicted by actual evidence, and they don't claim that theirs is the only truth, I'm fine by it.

If I'm not mistaken my post was assigned to Rah who has stated that he doesn't believe anything without any evidence to back it up. My point is not to claim that people's opinions are not true. That's for them to decide. But I am trying to show how unreasonable people can be.

Yes, I know. I've given a lot of thought to this along the years. If you're interested, I don't think there's a free will, for starters.

That's a pretty unreasonable opinion as well. Most people disagree.

I don't think you're getting the point though... I have no problem with people believing in things, as long as they understand that it's a b]belief[/b], and can't be put forth as truth unless they have evidence for it.

All I've done is claim that what I believe is true because I have faith, not what you've accused me of.

[Docfeelgood]

If the wings of a fly are pulled off does it become a walk?

[Kidlicious]

More deflection on your part. I have not once said I don't believe in something unless there is evidence. I said lacking evidence I usually lean towards not believing. Not the absolute you keep claiming. AND what I believe has absolutely no impact on my original point. "Your belief in god is based on BLIND FAITH" You seem to agree with the faith part but deny the blind part.
I see no difference. I ask for proof that it's not blind and you toss out that since others believe and claim to have witnessed as proof. IT"S NOT PROOF. Your belief is totally based on faith, which is blind. This isn't about my beliefs, it's about the blind faith you seem to refuse to admit. Offer real proof otherwise which even you claim doesn't exist. Or admit the blind part.

A more deflection on your part. We've already been over this. Why do you insist on bringing up points that have seemingly been settled. I am not blind (ignorant). I don't believe in the use of reason, with regards to this subjective question. That hardly makes me blind.

[giblets]

That life is so rare that it would happen only once in the history of the universe, but can happen (obviously), is incredulous.

The likelihood for this to happen would have to be (for all the constants and events and so on) so small as.... I can't even express it.

JM

"I can't imagine that number, so it's wrong"

[OneFootInTheGrave]

If the wings of a fly are pulled off does it become a walk?

no it becomes an invalid