Religion: Real or Fake

[giblets]

The question is did you actually accept Jesus or did you just avoid the offense of him. Are you willing to be an offense to the world and stand up for what you believe. If so than you are moral.

What do you mean by "avoiding the offense of him"? And how does it offend the world to be moral? Surely if people have morality written on their hearts they shouldn't be offended by it?

[Kidlicious]

What do you mean by "avoiding the offense of him"? And how does it offend the world to be moral? Surely if people have morality written on their hearts they shouldn't be offended by it?

The offense is, in part, that Jesus is an individual man who claims to be God and the saviour of the world, yet he does not love himself the way that the natural man loves himself. And he commands his follower to also not love themselves the way natural men love themselves. If you love the world (decide never to offend it) and you love yourself, but you claim to love Jesus then you have avoided the offense. But if you pass through the offense you accept the true Jesus, not you fantasy of Him, then you will behave morally.

[giblets]

The offense is, in part, that Jesus is an individual man who claims to be God and the saviour of the world, yet he does not love himself the way that the natural man loves himself. And he commands his follower to also not love themselves the way natural men love themselves. If you love the world (decide never to offend it) and you love yourself, but you claim to love Jesus then you have avoided the offense. But if you pass through the offense you accept the true Jesus, not you fantasy of Him, then you will behave morally.

I don't find "not loving yourself" to be offensive. Actually I can't think of anything offensive about Jesus. Although some of his followers...

[Kidlicious]

I don't find "not loving yourself" to be offensive. Actually I can't think of anything offensive about Jesus. Although some of his followers...

Of course, pretty much the entire modern world says that he is not offensive, but his contemporaries were very offended indeed, as everyone in this society would be offended by an individual who claims to be God (more to the point that the established idea of God is false), doesn't love himself, has no status in society to speak of, and is defeated by his enemies.

[giblets]

Of course, pretty much the entire modern world says that he is not offensive, but his contemporaries were very offended indeed, as everyone in this society would be offended by an individual who claims to be God (more to the point that the established idea of God is false), doesn't love himself, has no status in society to speak of, and is defeated by his enemies.

I can see how claiming to be God might offend some people, but the other three? Maybe you could provide some examples of people showing offense toward those things? I just can't see it. They might look down on someone with no status, but why would they be offended?

[Kidlicious]

I can see how claiming to be God might offend some people, but the other three? Maybe you could provide some examples of people showing offense toward those things? I just can't see it. They might look down on someone with no status, but why would they be offended?

I'm not saying to take the reasons for offense seperately. That's why I said that my definition is only in part. You may not be offended by Him because you don't know much about Him. However, I will say that you have a fantasy about who Jesus is. So you don't know much about Him, and that is by choice. You prefer, like a lot of people, to believe in a Jesus that doesn't and has never existed.

And you say that you aren't offended by Him, only some of his followers? Jesus said, "No one is good except for God." It seems that you are offended by Jesus and not some of his follows, quite the opposite of what you claim.

[DaShi]

I know Jesus better than Kid and from that experience I can say that gribbler also knows Jesus better than Kid.

[Aeson]

I know Kid better than Jesus.

[giblets]

I'm not saying to take the reasons for offense seperately. That's why I said that my definition is only in part. You may not be offended by Him because you don't know much about Him. However, I will say that you have a fantasy about who Jesus is. So you don't know much about Him, and that is by choice. You prefer, like a lot of people, to believe in a Jesus that doesn't and has never existed.

Well, nothing is stopping you from talking about "the real Jesus", I guess. In any case I couldn't have chosen to not believe in the real Jesus if I don't see anything fake about what I already think about him.

And you say that you aren't offended by Him, only some of his followers? Jesus said, "No one is good except for God." It seems that you are offended by Jesus and not some of his follows, quite the opposite of what you claim.

That doesn't make sense. If all men are not good, then I can be offended by any of them, because they all have done bad things that could potentially bother me. You haven't given any reason why I couldn't be offended by some of his followers.

[DaShi]

I know Kid from psychoanalyzing his posts on this forum and reading a lot of stuff about psychology and my gut feelings. He's about as loony as they come.

[Aeson]

I retract my earlier statement now that I realize this is a biblical thread.

[Kidlicious]

That doesn't make sense. If all men are not good, then I can be offended by any of them, because they all have done bad things that could potentially bother me. You haven't given any reason why I couldn't be offended by some of his followers.

The fact that they offend you doesn't mean that they aren't good. That's your perception of what is good, not God's.

[giblets]

The fact that they offend you doesn't mean that they aren't good. That's your perception of what is good, not God's.

I never said so. Why is it not possible for me to be offended by some Christians if all people are bad?

[giblets]

How does "no men are good" imply that I can't be offended by them? I'm taking issue with that claim.

[giblets]

And you say that you aren't offended by Him, only some of his followers? Jesus said, "No one is good except for God."

This is a non sequitur. I can't be offended by his followers because they're not good? WTF?