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Welcome to the US government. How can we secretly piss you off today?

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  • #1

    Welcome to the US government. How can we secretly piss you off today?

    Shock and awe -- the FBI allegedly has put backdoors in IPSEC (IP authentication thing..computer security stuff if you're an everyman) for a security-oriented OS (OpenBSD).

    What else are they doing behind your back?

    Or should we not care and throw in jail the people who expose these things?

    This is from Theo de Raadt, head guy at OpenBSD

    'Allegations regarding OpenBSD IPSEC' - MARC
    http://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=129236621626462&w=2

    I have received a mail regarding the early development of the OpenBSD
    IPSEC stack. It is alleged that some ex-developers (and the company
    they worked for) accepted US government money to put backdoors into
    our network stack, in particular the IPSEC stack. Around 2000-2001.

    Since we had the first IPSEC stack available for free, large parts of
    the code are now found in many other projects/products. Over 10
    years, the IPSEC code has gone through many changes and fixes, so it
    is unclear what the true impact of these allegations are.

    The mail came in privately from a person I have not talked to for
    nearly 10 years. I refuse to become part of such a conspiracy, and
    will not be talking to Gregory Perry about this. Therefore I am
    making it public so that
    (a) those who use the code can audit it for these problems,
    (b) those that are angry at the story can take other actions,
    (c) if it is not true, those who are being accused can defend themselves.

    Of course I don't like it when my private mail is forwarded. However
    the "little ethic" of a private mail being forwarded is much smaller
    than the "big ethic" of government paying companies to pay open source
    developers (a member of a community-of-friends) to insert
    privacy-invading holes in software.

    ----

    From: Gregory Perry
    To: "deraadt@openbsd.org"
    Subject: OpenBSD Crypto Framework
    Thread-Topic: OpenBSD Crypto Framework
    Thread-Index: AcuZjuF6cT4gcSmqQv+Fo3/+2m80eg==
    Date: Sat, 11 Dec 2010 23:55:25 +0000
    Message-ID: <8D3222F9EB68474DA381831A120B1023019AC034@mbx021-e2-nj-5.exch021.domain.local>
    Accept-Language: en-US
    Content-Language: en-US
    X-MS-Has-Attach:
    X-MS-TNEF-Correlator:
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Status: RO

    Hello Theo,

    Long time no talk. If you will recall, a while back I was the CTO at
    NETSEC and arranged funding and donations for the OpenBSD Crypto
    Framework. At that same time I also did some consulting for the FBI,
    for their GSA Technical Support Center, which was a cryptologic
    reverse engineering project aimed at backdooring and implementing key
    escrow mechanisms for smart card and other hardware-based computing
    technologies.

    My NDA with the FBI has recently expired, and I wanted to make you
    aware of the fact that the FBI implemented a number of backdoors and
    side channel key leaking mechanisms into the OCF, for the express
    purpose of monitoring the site to site VPN encryption system
    implemented by EOUSA, the parent organization to the FBI. Jason
    Wright and several other developers were responsible for those
    backdoors, and you would be well advised to review any and all code
    commits by Wright as well as the other developers he worked with
    originating from NETSEC.

    This is also probably the reason why you lost your DARPA funding, they
    more than likely caught wind of the fact that those backdoors were
    present and didn't want to create any derivative products based upon
    the same.

    This is also why several inside FBI folks have been recently
    advocating the use of OpenBSD for VPN and firewalling implementations
    in virtualized environments, for example Scott Lowe is a well
    respected author in virtualization circles who also happens top be on
    the FBI payroll, and who has also recently published several tutorials
    for the use of OpenBSD VMs in enterprise VMware vSphere deployments.

    Merry Christmas...

    Gregory Perry
    Chief Executive Officer
    GoVirtual Education
    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "
    Tags: None
  • #2
    Hey, that's the risk you take with open source software!

    Pretty cool stuff
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
    ){ :|:& };:

    Comment

    • #3
      Its also pretty much a risk we take with Microsoft.

      Comment

      • #4
        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
        Hey, that's the risk you take with open source software!

        Pretty cool stuff
        Why would this only apply to OSS?

        If anything, OSS is supposed to PREVENT things like this from happening with the "many eyes" theory of security (which is bull**** anyway).

        It's not cool stuff. It's Big Government secretly implementing devices to spy on its citizens. For years there have been allegations that the US government has backdoors for many systems, now there's reason to believe this may be truth.
        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

        Comment

        • #5
          Well I just read the email, and this Theo guy seems to think the allegations are far from proven. But then again, this is an Asher Thread, so I guess facts are optional.

          But I'd honestly be a bit disappointed with the FBI and NSA if they weren't capable of this sort of thing. I mean it's the goddamn FBI, not a bunch of amateurs. And at worst, they'd need a court warrant to actually make an arrest with this information and most likely the information they get from these methods wouldn't be valid in court anyway.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

          Comment

          • #6
            You see Asher, unlike you, I'm not wetting the bed with nightmares of jackboots and bayonets just because the FBI has a few domestic surveillance programs. There are some things that worry me, but at the moment I'm confident that our current level of safeguards via federalism and due process are sufficient to keep the wannabe dictators at bay.
            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
            ){ :|:& };:

            Comment

            • #7
              Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
              Well I just read the email, and this Theo guy seems to think the allegations are far from proven. But then again, this is an Asher Thread, so I guess facts are optional.
              You don't know Theo de Raadt? For shame...

              And why the hell do you think he thinks the allegations are far from proven? He just doesn't want to involve himself in it, so he's put it out there.

              I frankly see no reason why Gregory Perry would lie about this, considering he's a wealthy businessman/technologist with his own company that has nothing to gain or lose in this matter...

              But I'd honestly be a bit disappointed with the FBI and NSA if they weren't capable of this sort of thing. I mean it's the goddamn FBI, not a bunch of amateurs.
              Did you even read? They weren't capable of anything. They just paid off some guys in the private sector to do it, then gagged them with an NDA.

              You need to realize that the government having increasingly invasive knowledge of private lives is not a good thing.

              And at worst, they'd need a court warrant to actually make an arrest with this information and most likely the information they get from these methods wouldn't be valid in court anyway.
              Why would they need a warrant to do something no one knows they can do? Why do you think this was so secret, exactly? Why do you think they need it to be valid in court?
              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

              Comment

              • #8
                Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                You see Asher, unlike you, I'm not wetting the bed with nightmares of jackboots and bayonets just because the FBI has a few domestic surveillance programs.
                Considering the FBI has no jurisdiction and can't do anything to me, why would I be wetting the bed?

                I'm opposed to this on principle because unlike you, I actually value freedom and small government.
                "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                Comment

                • #9
                  I'm not sure what I'm supposed to be angry at.

                  Comment

                  • #10
                    No one expects you to. It's a sad fact that Americans either accept this or cheer for it.

                    How far the mighty have fallen.
                    "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                    Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                    Comment

                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Asher View Post
                      Considering the FBI has no jurisdiction and can't do anything to me, why would I be wetting the bed?

                      I'm opposed to this on principle because unlike you, I actually value freedom and small government.
                      The FBI has a lot more limited jurisdiction in the US than you might expect.

                      You see, they can't actually prosecute for things that aren't federal crimes. And the federal government has a relatively short list of things it can ACTUALLY make criminal.

                      I might actually be MORE worried if the state police were monitoring everyone...except then, the feds would bust the state cops! So nothing to worry about.
                      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                      ){ :|:& };:

                      Comment

                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                        The FBI has a lot more limited jurisdiction in the US than you might expect.

                        You see, they can't actually prosecute for things that aren't federal crimes. And the federal government has a relatively short list of things it can ACTUALLY make criminal.

                        I might actually be MORE worried if the state police were monitoring everyone...except then, the feds would bust the state cops! So nothing to worry about.
                        Oh to be so naive...
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment

                        • #13
                          How can anyone who claims to like small-government not be outraged by this? Seriously?

                          Are you guys just pretending to be all about small-government while you actually obviously support authoritarian governments?
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment

                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Asher View Post
                            How can anyone who claims to like small-government not be outraged by this? Seriously?

                            Are you guys just pretending to be all about small-government while you actually obviously support authoritarian governments?
                            Welcome to the Republican party.

                            Comment

                            • #15
                              You do realize that the federal police are only a small percentage of policemen in the united states, right? They simply don't have the manpower to use this sort of wiretapping or surveillance on more than a handful of people. I'll wait until the feds start hiring ****loads of cops before I make my escape to Hong Kong.
                              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                              ){ :|:& };:

                              Comment

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