Students

[Kuciwalker]

[QUOTE=Asher;5902033]Holy **** are you ever ignorant.

I get into two finance debates with you and I wipe the floor in both?[/q]

Do you live in some kind of bizarro world?

How can you not know STATE universities are subsidized by the STATE?

That's not the inference you were drawing. Moreover, in the US it is actually not true to nearly the degree you would expect based on the examples of other countries.

[Al B. Sure!]

I have no idea how "registration fees" are meaningfully different from tuition for purposes of this issue. Moreover, sales are not government subsidies. So if we assume "appropriations" refers to appropriations by the legislature you've got it at roughly 1/3. Moreover, it's not clear why a single data point is an appropriate sample...

Also, research grants primarily finance... research, AS. That's basically orthogonal.

It's hard to find similar breakdowns for universities. That was the best I could find quickly and, like I said, I am aware it's not ideal since it excludes gifts and grants and many of the terms are vague.

[Asher]

Do you live in some kind of bizarro world?

That's not the inference you were drawing.

Clearly, it's you in the bizarro world if you think that's not the inference I was drawing...

[Kuciwalker]

You made the claim that it has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education in the world. This is false.

It is only true if you include EVERY COUNTRY in the world like Uganda rather than just developed nations, where the US is in the bottom half.

1) And you accuse me of being pedantic? Oh no maybe I was wrong if you include every type of post-secondary education instead of just college like we were talking about!

2) It's your own fault if you interpreted "the world" to mean "a small piece of the world", not mine...

[Al B. Sure!]

Here, this is Kansas:

http://www.kansan.com/news/2010/oct/04/inflation-catches-state-funding/

According to the report, tuition revenues in 2009 were $449,638,044 compared to state appropriations of $428,301,065. In 2005, state appropriations were $399,929,966 while tuition revenues totaled $317,907,310.

State funding for higher education increased by about $25 million, or 7 percent, since 2005. That increase failed to keep up with inflation for that time period, which the Higher Education Price Index calculated to be about 16 percent.

In that same time period, overall tuition revenues increased by 41 percent. Tuition revenues are influenced by enrollment and tuition rates. Between 2005 and 2010, enrollment increased by 5.5 percent. Enrollment at the University increased by 1.7 percent in that stretch, an increase higher only than that of Kansas State University.

[Kuciwalker]

Clearly, it's you in the bizarro world if you think that's not the inference I was drawing...

"
ASU is financed by tuition and public subsidies. Just like public schools are in Canada.

Why else would non-residents pay 2 1/2 times as much? "

i.e. "non-residents pay 2.5 times as much -> schools must be financed mostly through public subsidies".

[Kuciwalker]

UVA is financed by the state of Virginia to the tune of... 6.3% of its operating budget.

http://www.virginia.edu/budget/operatingbudget.html

[Asher]

1) And you accuse me of being pedantic? Oh no maybe I was wrong if you include every type of post-secondary education instead of just college like we were talking about!

Oh, jesus ****ing Christ Kuci.

THIS IS WHAT YOU SAID:

Just for the sake of everyone else (since you yourself understand it perfectly), Asher argument is stupid because the US has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education in the world.

It's not my fault you didn't even know what post-secondary education MEANT! ADDITIONALLY, "college" in MANY countries (including Canada) specifically means 2 year diplomas. UNIVERSITY means 4 year degrees. So even if you ONLY meant "college" by "post-secondary education", not only is that NOT what you said but it means DIFFERENT THINGS in different countries.

2) It's your own fault if you interpreted "the world" to mean "a small piece of the world", not mine...

No sensible person would say my argument about US education availability was not a good one BECAUSE THIRD WORLD COUNTRIES ARE WORSE.

You are squirming again.

[Asher]

"
ASU is financed by tuition and public subsidies. Just like public schools are in Canada.

Why else would non-residents pay 2 1/2 times as much? "

i.e. "non-residents pay 2.5 times as much -> schools must be financed mostly through public subsidies".

I never said that, and if you inferred that, it's your own stupidity that did it.

I made the claim that state schools are subsidized by the state. My claim was as you quoted:

ASU is financed by tuition and public subsidies. Just like public schools are in Canada.

It turns out, THIS IS TRUE as you now see.

Your claim was Canada's schools were "subsidized by the government" which is why the tuition was lower.

The same is true for the US state schools.

Period.

[Asher]

UVA is financed by the state of Virginia to the tune of... 6.3% of its operating budget.

http://www.virginia.edu/budget/operatingbudget.html

Yet your claim that they are "almost fully funded" from tuition is clearly not true, with 17.6% of their operating budget coming from tuition. 6.3% from explicit government funding vs 17.6% coming from tuition does NOT mean your statement is correct:

In the US most public schools get almost all of their funding from tuition.

Jesus Christ, why can't you just admit you are wrong?

[Asher]

Also, WTF are "patient revenues" and why do they account for 42.9% of UVA's operating budget?

Is UVA funding their school off sick and dying people through University Hospitals?

[Al B. Sure!]

UVA is financed by the state of Virginia to the tune of... 6.3% of its operating budget.

http://www.virginia.edu/budget/operatingbudget.html

http://www.temple.edu/budget/documents/2009-10BudgetPackage.pdf

My alma mater, much more like the average American university than UVA is, had 25% of its revenue from the State government.

[Asher]

That's probably because Temple University didn't bankrupt dying people charging for medical care to fund their History program like UVA does.

[Al B. Sure!]

That's probably because Temple University didn't bankrupt dying people charging for medical care to fund their History program like UVA does.

Asher, notice how UVA has a separate chart for "Academics" which doesn't have patient revenues?

[Asher]

Yes, I also noticed that Kuci deliberately chose not to use it because he was trying to make the state funding numbers smaller.

It looks much better for him if he uses the state funding number for the whole hog, who cares about education?

He's pretty desperate to try to find ways to win this one, but he just keeps digging more holes.