Students

[Asher]

Given that huge numbers of foreigners are desperate to pay our post-secondary costs ...

It's just not really disputable that the US has the premiere post-secondary system, by far.

It's very important that you realize that because some of your highest end schools are very, very good, that is not an example for the whole of the system. Indeed, most of those schools are private, no?

You also need to realize the vast majority of people cannot or do not go to those schools.

The majority case is **** like Arizona State University. Premiere indeed.

[Kuciwalker]

The majority of people don't go to college at all, Asher.

[Al B. Sure!]

The majority of people don't go to college at all, Asher.

It's obvious he meant the majority of people who go to college go to state schools.

Why don't you post something meaningful instead of being a douchey pedant?

[Kuciwalker]

Just because you don't understand the relevance doesn't mean it's pedantry.

Asher: also, the ASU-types just aren't that expensive. The expensive schools are overwhelmingly the ones that provide the most signaling value.

[Boris Godunov]

Is a douchy pendant a feminine hygiene product worn around the neck?

Also, Al calling anyone a pedant is the ultimate pot-kettleism

[Asher]

The majority of people don't go to college at all, Asher.

Uh. Exactly?

I did mean the majority of those who pursue post-secondary education. That really should've been quite clear from the context.

But you're also right that for a country with such an awe-inspiring post-secondary education system, it remains out of reach for most people.

[Al B. Sure!]

Something seems really flawed in the Genius Clique reasoning in this thread. As best as I can tell, they're saying financial aid is 'bad' because it favors those who are more likely to become able to afford a college education; in other words, intelligent kids who get useful degrees will be able to get jobs where they can easily pay off the debt accrued during their college years. Therefore, Pell Grants are subsidizing the educations of those who are more intelligent than their college peers and who will, therefore, be more likely to have better jobs after college such that they would not have even needed the Pell Grants to begin with, so it's a senseless subsidy.

Something is wrong there, though. If that is the gist of the argument, as it seems to me to be, why is it that no policy-makers seem to follow that logic? And why does it seem intuitively wrong?

[Jon Miller]

Given that huge numbers of foreigners are desperate to pay our post-secondary costs ...

It's just not really disputable that the US has the premiere post-secondary system, by far.

Graduate school in the US is probably the best, but is disputable. For undergraduate the US is probably not the best.

JM

[Asher]

ASU is $4067 a term with a full course load, if you're an Arizona resident.

I paid half of that...before scholarships, credits, etc.

I don't consider that cheap. And that is one of your worst schools, no?

[Jon Miller]

Just because you don't understand the relevance doesn't mean it's pedantry.

Asher: also, the ASU-types just aren't that expensive. The expensive schools are overwhelmingly the ones that provide the most signaling value.

The expensive schools, Harvard et al., also provide pretty significant scholarships/etc.

My undergraduate was a private school which cost ~25k per year to attend. Most of the smart students were there on scholarships (and partially need based grants). These were most of the students in physics/etc. The students who weren't as bright had their parents paying the bills. They often took courses like communications, and had significantly lower GPAs.

My understanding is that my experience is pretty common for expensive private institutions.

JM

[Kuciwalker]

Uh. Exactly?

I did mean the majority of those who pursue post-secondary education. That really should've been quite clear from the context.

But you're also right that for a country with such an awe-inspiring post-secondary education system, it remains out of reach for most people.

Just for the sake of everyone else (since you yourself understand it perfectly), Asher argument is stupid because the US has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education in the world.

[DaShi]

According to my friend from UPenn, Penn State and UPenn offer a vastly different quality of education.

[Kuciwalker]

ASU is $4067 a term with a full course load, if you're an Arizona resident.

I paid half of that...before scholarships, credits, etc.

Your public schools in Canada are financed by the government, yes? In the US most public schools get almost all of their funding from tuition. So, sure, it's cheaper for the consumer when the government picks up the tab!

[Asher]

Just for the sake of everyone else (since you yourself understand it perfectly), Asher argument is stupid because the US has one of the highest rates of post-secondary education in the world.

Fun American educational facts:

Only 78% of students graduate from high school, one of the lowest rates in the developed world. (Canada is 87%, by comparison)

The US is ranked 15th out of 29 developed nations for college completion rates, just ahead of MEXICO and TURKEY. (Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education_in_the_United_States )

This is largely because the younger generation just isn't going to college like the prior ones.

The US was ranked 2nd in college completion rates in the 35-64 category. Behind only Canada. They are 10th if you only look at 25-34.

[Asher]

Your public schools in Canada are financed by the government, yes? In the US most public schools get almost all of their funding from tuition. So, sure, it's cheaper for the consumer when the government picks up the tab!

This sounds like bull****, considering ASU's non-resident rate is $10200.