Students

[KrazyHorse]

Dufus, that doesn't have anything to do with it. The people who get Pell Grants and do something worthwhile with them are virtually guaranteed to be much better off financially than the rest of the population.

Albie doesn't want to admit that he was born LUCKY.

Being born smart (even as modestly smart as albie is) is like winning the ****ing LOTTERY.

Every day I am grateful that I was born wired up the way I am. I didn't do anything to deserve it. However, I am putting my talents to pretty good use. Albie is not. He is pissing away his lottery winnings.

[KrazyHorse]

Actually, maybe I'm not taking a very good position. I think college education in the US is overpriced, but having the government pay for it isn't a very good solution.

I think there are a lot of mediocre degrees people get that are overpriced. Part of the reason for this pricing is the existence of government subsidies (though I am not so bold as to say that this is a major effect).

You really do have to remember how much money people make throughout their lives. Sure, getting a finance degree from a nontarget like Temple may not be worthwhile, but studying a real subject at a real school can really pay off...

[giblets]

I think there are a lot of mediocre degrees people get that are overpriced. Part of the reason for this pricing is the existence of government subsidies (though I am not so bold as to say that this is a major effect).

You really do have to remember how much money people make throughout their lives. Sure, getting a finance degree from a nontarget like Temple may not be worthwhile, but studying a real subject at a real school can really pay off...

Yeah, that makes it easy to charge that much, but I don't see how the services they provide could require anywhere near that much money. They're mostly just selling a certification that you're smart and took classes and became knowledgeable in a subject.

[Kuciwalker]

Yeah, that makes it easy to charge that much, but I don't see how the services they provide could require anywhere near that much money. They're mostly just selling a certification that you're smart and took classes and became knowledgeable in a subject.

... that sounds like an enormously valuable certification.

[giblets]

Yeah, that makes it easy to charge that much, but I don't see how the services they provide could require anywhere near that much money. They're mostly just selling a certification that you're smart and took classes and became knowledgeable in a subject.

... that sounds like an enormously valuable certification.

Yes, that makes people willing to pay a lot. But universities are probably getting a big economic profit. I could be wrong, maybe the services they offer really do cost that much.

[KrazyHorse]

Yeah, that makes it easy to charge that much, but I don't see how the services they provide could require anywhere near that much money. They're mostly just selling a certification that you're smart and took classes and became knowledgeable in a subject.

... that sounds like an enormously valuable certification.

Signaling

[KrazyHorse]

Universities don't generally run at a profit. They basically behave like a cross between a faculty partnership (where much of the proceeds are distributed to the partners) and a charity that dispenses some reduced-cost services to a fraction of their students.

[Hauldren Collider]

The way college education is currently subsidized in the US however seems to have the effect of raising college prices just like any other subsidy, but you eventually have to pay the full price.

A few subtleties about college financing:

1. "Middle class scholarships" are nothing more than getting you to pay exactly what you're willing to pay for college. It's just discriminatory pricing. That's it.
2. By making the loans easier to get, you raise the price of college by reducing the short-term costs for someone attempting to go to college. But you eventually have to pay off the full, inflated price of college because it's subsidized as a loan instead of just a handout. I'm not sure this is good.

Am I missing anything here?

[Hauldren Collider]

Also, regarding university funding: Universities are strange. They basically are three businesses--education, research, and sports--morphed into one, for rather stupid and primarily historical reasons. I think the research originated when there wasn't a way to get venture capital so in order to finance research, researchers would teach. The sports is mainly tradition and when it isn't justified purely as such it is justified by saying that alumni give more donations to schools with better sports teams. However it is effectively a side business for the university, and at least at most colleges the idea that the football players are actually students is a preposterous myth to convince kids to go to the university so they can meet their favorite football star.

I'm not sure being nonprofit is really a good thing for universities. Why is there such a stigma for for-profit universities? We should probably get rid of the tax deduction for nonprofit universities, as it locks for-profits out of the market needlessly, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Kuciwalker]

The way college education is currently subsidized in the US however seems to have the effect of raising college prices just like any other subsidy, but you eventually have to pay the full price.

This is incoherent. Decide whether or not it is a subsidy already.

[Kuciwalker]

2. By making the loans easier to get, you raise the price of college by reducing the short-term costs for someone attempting to go to college. But you eventually have to pay off the full, inflated price of college because it's subsidized as a loan instead of just a handout. I'm not sure this is good.

Dude, I'm going to give you a loan at 1% interest. The bank would charge you 5%. But you aren't gaining anything because you eventually have to pay all the money back!

Seriously, think about this for 5 seconds.

[Kuciwalker]

Am I missing anything here?

Yes.

[giblets]

I'm not sure being nonprofit is really a good thing for universities. Why is there such a stigma for for-profit universities? We should probably get rid of the tax deduction for nonprofit universities, as it locks for-profits out of the market needlessly, but I'm not holding my breath.

If I'm going to get ripped off by forking over large amounts of money just to take some classes and get a certification, at the very least it should go to a non-profit....

[Hauldren Collider]

The price of the college goes up however since the loans are available to more people, thus people can pay more for college and more people are going to college, etc. So the government intervention increases the price of college.

If I understand this correctly.

xpost

Gribbler: What makes nonprofits inherently better than for-profit?

[KrazyHorse]

If I'm going to get ripped off by forking over large amounts of money just to take some classes and get a certification, at the very least it should go to a non-profit....

Why? What makes you think that the people who get paid the residuals in the nonprofit (professors) are more deserving than people who get paid the residuals in a for-profit (owners)?