DHS/ICE seizes domain names of torrent sites

[Imran Siddiqui]

The thing that bothered me (and, I thought, most people) about BK wasn't his craziness but his fundamental dishonesty. He would make up random crap as "evidence" for his POV, move goalposts whenever it suited him, employ strawmen without a hint of shame, and redefine the entire argument on a whim. And the hell of it was, when confronted he would act totally shocked and baffled, like he had no idea what you meant. I figured he'd just been lying as a form of argument for so long that he no longer even noticed he was doing it. He may have even been genuinely emotionally disturbed.

I can't even tell what argument Kid is trying to make here--it seems to have degenerated into his repeatedly saying something like "I know you are, but what am I?"--but he's no BK.

All of that is true. I was referring to craziness as inclusive of Ben's tendancy to be completely and fundamentally dishonest in debate, as if it was some sort of mental block.

[Elok]

And I have complete faith that I am not stupid, (well I guess more than just faith, because no one that stupid could make the money I make doing what I do)

You've got to be at least the tiniest bit stupid, or you would have given up this "argument" before now.

[Lorizael]

Wow! Lorizael, that's not the question. You're suppose to back this assertion up, "internal and external forces? I reason my way through arguments." My question to that is "So are you saying that you reason yourself through to absolute truth, or there are internal and external forces involved." If that's not it then define truth and how you reason your way to it and avoid error.

You wasted a bunch of time just demonstrating how you can't think reasonably and intelligently. Now please answer the question.

No, see, I don't particularly care about that debate. I've been trying to get you to understand the flaw in your own method of making decisions for quite some time now, but you obstinately refuse to address my points.

But in the spirit of communication or some other bull****, I'll answer your question.

I don't reason my way to absolute truth, because I have no solid evidence that there is such a concept of absolute truth. As far as external or internal forces - I really don't know what you're referring to here, so you're going to have to define your terms better.

How do I avoid error? I don't. I get things wrong all the time. But the capacity to reason allows me to consider things for a second, third, or fourth time if I encounter new and different evidence. This leads me in the direction of being less incorrect as time goes on, but it never allows me to know, for certain, that I am without error.

But I'm okay with that, because I can act, and be reasonably confident of the rightness of my actions, based on the conclusions I've reached throughout my life.

[Kidlicious]

No, see, I don't particularly care about that debate. I've been trying to get you to understand the flaw in your own method of making decisions for quite some time now, but you obstinately refuse to address my points.

If you don't care about that then you're a moron. I'm asking you to explain what you believe. If you don't care to explain what you believe then why should I talk to you except to let you continue to make a fool of yourself?

But in the spirit of communication or some other bull****, I'll answer your question.

Or do you mean in the spirit of bull****?

I don't reason my way to absolute truth, because I have no solid evidence that there is such a concept of absolute truth. As far as external or internal forces - I really don't know what you're referring to here, so you're going to have to define your terms better.

Um.. do you know anything about psychology? Particularly how the unconscious mind works and how humans beings deceive themselves and others as well as rationalize? Seriously? You don't know what I'm talking about? Do you know what herd mentality is? Do you know what socialization is?

How do I avoid error? I don't. I get things wrong all the time. But the capacity to reason allows me to consider things for a second, third, or fourth time if I encounter new and different evidence. This leads me in the direction of being less incorrect as time goes on, but it never allows me to know, for certain, that I am without error.

How do you know whether or not you are right or not if you don't know what truth is?

[rah]

Truth is a target sought and not a given (except through faith). You strive towards it experimentally and learn along the way or you just sit there and believe.
I prefer experimenting. Yes, that means I sometimes get things wrong. I prefer to sometimes be wrong instead of never questioning or striving to learn more.

[Kidlicious]

Truth is a target sought and not a given (except through faith).

What do you mean, like setting off on a journey and not knowing where you are going? Just driving down the highway, like a Sunday drive?

You strive towards it experimentally and learn along the way or you just sit there and believe.
I prefer experimenting. Yes, that means I sometimes get things wrong. I prefer to sometimes be wrong instead of never questioning or striving to learn more.

Faith is also a journey. As your faith gets stronger you are more sure of your convictions. How is what you believe different?

[Lorizael]

Um.. do you know anything about psychology? Particularly how the unconscious mind works and how humans beings deceive themselves and others as well as rationalize? Seriously? You don't know what I'm talking about? Do you know what herd mentality is? Do you know what socialization is?

Bluh! Remember when I was ranting at you about cognitive biases for several pages awhile back? Yeah, I know about psychology. Christ Almighty. Nevertheless, you need to define your terms better. External or internal forces - in regards to what? In regards to how these affect people's decision making? How do I deal with those? I'll get to that.

How do you know whether or not you are right or not if you don't know what truth is?

I don't need truth to be right. All I need is verification of predictions. I can predict that the Sun will rise tomorrow based on what I know of orbital mechanics, and if the Sun rises tomorrow, then I was right.

But just the same, if I predict that the Sun will rise tomorrow but I fail to take into account the fact that the Vogons are going to destroy Earth, then I know that I was wrong and I can revise my predictions with new data from the Vogon event.

And as it concerns cognitive biases and various other factors, I could predict that the Sun will rise tomorrow but fail to take into account my own selection bias due to me never having been off the planet Earth. Then someday when I'm an astronaut I'll be wrong about the Sun rising tomorrow and have to revise my predictions once again, this time with an understanding of my own biases toward being on the surface of the Earth.

[N35t0r]

We seem to have the silly notion that this method, which anyone with decent intelligence could learn, and then be able to make the predictions himself is superior to blind faith.

[rah]

What do you mean, like setting off on a journey and not knowing where you are going? Just driving down the highway, like a Sunday drive?

Faith is also a journey. As your faith gets stronger you are more sure of your convictions. How is what you believe different?

Those two statement are exactly what's different between us.

I don't know what the truth is so I search for it. That's the journey for me. It will be formed and can change based on what I experience. You compare that to taking a Sunday drive that generally has no purpose. You think it has no purpose because you don't search for the truth or expect it to change since you have faith AND YOU BELIEVE YOU ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH.
As far as I'm concerned Faith isn't a journey because the end truth isn't sought nor changes. It's just there. By you own statement the only change is how much more pigheaded you believe it. Not a journey to me at all.

[Kidlicious]

We seem to have the silly notion that this method, which anyone with decent intelligence could learn, and then be able to make the predictions himself is superior to blind faith.

The silly notion that you have is that that applies to how one comes to have a religious conviction, or lack thereof. I'm not talking about predicting the weather.

The interesting thing here though is that I've made that point over and over. Why can't you people get that? This is exactly what I'm talking about, and it's evidence for my point.

[Kidlicious]

And as it concerns cognitive biases and various other factors, I could predict that the Sun will rise tomorrow but fail to take into account my own selection bias due to me never having been off the planet Earth. Then someday when I'm an astronaut I'll be wrong about the Sun rising tomorrow and have to revise my predictions once again, this time with an understanding of my own biases toward being on the surface of the Earth.

Yes, you know alot about psychology. See my previous post.

[Kidlicious]

Those two statement are exactly what's different between us.

Really?

I don't know what the truth is so I search for it. That's the journey for me.

How do you think I started out? My point is that reason will only take you to a place of resignation. From there you must make a decision, just as when you get to a fork in the road. I'm just farther down the road than you.

It will be formed and can change based on what I experience. You compare that to taking a Sunday drive that generally has no purpose. You think it has no purpose because you don't search for the truth or expect it to change since you have faith AND YOU BELIEVE YOU ALREADY KNOW THE TRUTH.

Nonsense. I set out on a journey the same as you, to find the truth.

As far as I'm concerned Faith isn't a journey because the end truth isn't sought nor changes. It's just there. By you own statement the only change is how much more pigheaded you believe it. Not a journey to me at all.

I'm waiting for you to explain how you aren't describing yourself here. How do you even know that you're getting anywhere if you don't have a destination? Pigheaded.

[Lorizael]

You've get to provide an adequate reason as to why predicting the weather and religious convictions are distinct phenomena.

[Kidlicious]

You've get to provide an adequate reason as to why predicting the weather and religious convictions are distinct phenomena.

You've got to be kidding.

[Kidlicious]

I've got no more time for today.