Republican Wave

[DanS]

Please refrain from commentary and pre-celebratory predictions for those of us who are superstitious and dont want to JINX GETTING RID OF EVERY FREAKIN DEM POSSIBLE.

I'm sorry. I will not enable superstition on Poly.

[DriXnaK]

Unions are nothing more than organized crime.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

I'm sorry. I will not enable superstition on Poly.

Fate is a harsh mistress don't tempt her.

[Heraclitus]

Republicans in the long term provide only marginally better stewardship for the US. I especially detest their ideological crusades that bear little relevance to US security or even economic interests (outside narrow circles).

[DriXnaK]

True. If you have a choice between bad and worse though, which do you choose? The whole point of this election isn't just about getting rid of Democrats, it's about reforming the Republican party. The tea party is going to become the check and balance on the Republican party. If the Republican party sticks to the tea party ideals of small limited government and fiscal conservatism as their main party platform and sets the social issues on the back burner, you're going to see Republicans control everything come 2012. If they return to the Bush era big government policies that got them thrown out in the first place, I think you're going to see the tea party emerge as the main party and eventually the Republican party will cease to exist.

[Heraclitus]

Well the obvious thing to then do is to make sure Tea Party, Traditionalist and Libertarian candidates have the most disproportionate succes in Republican victories, nudging the republicans away from Neocon positions is however a difficult task.


However don't underestimate the soothing effect a strong republican candidate could have on the disgruntled Tea Party masses. Especially if he rides the Tea Party tide to victory only to sell out later. Do you agree that many many Tea Partiers simply love Sarah Palin and Glenn Beck? And do you agree both for the most part seem easily turned to Bush-like policies?


Also can the Tea Party afford to wait 10 or 20 years before it wakes up again? Demographics work against it, sure they will still turn out to vote in similar numbers, but they won't turn out to protest, they'll just be too old. Imagine a Tea Party like movment just 10 or 20 years younger, wouldn't it have achieved more than the current moment?

Dreams of getting Hispanics or Blacks to switch sides are just that, dreams. The only Hispanics that will vote favourably are the completely assimilated ones (and considering their composition many many could be integrated with little damage). Lower class second and third generation Hispanics will gladly join Blacks on the welfare plantation. All the agitation and demonstration of how non-racist, diverse and tolerant they are mostly serve to make Whites feel ok voting for the party not to actually attract these groups.

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

You guys are mixing beasts here. Hera invokes antipathy 'gainst neocons, those wishing to use US power to influence other nations towards Democracy styled in the image of the US. DriX indicates that social cons need to be silenced in favor of fiscal and libertarian bent conservatism.

The two are not of the same stripe. This despite the fact that Bush was a compassionate social conservative who listened to neocons for foreign policy.

[DriXnaK]

Sarah Palin, yes, Glenn Beck, no. Glenn Beck was not a fan of the Bush government expansion. What you say is true though, that's why these next 2 years are going to shape what happens. I don't think though that people will just be mullified by a Republican that does the same thing as a Democrat. There are a lot of Democrats and independents in the tea party movement too. This isn't a social conservative movement. I honestly believe that the Republican party will be dismantled with mass defections to a new Tea Party platform should the Republicans try to go back to their old ways. Michael Steel is a perfect example of a Republican that needs to go. The person that takes his place will determine if the Republicans are really serious about reform. Will they put a McCain in there or a Demint?

[DriXnaK]

Actually I'm also not in favor of neocon foreign policy either. They both need to go. The Republican national platform should be that of fiscal conservatism with small limited government and a traditional conservative foreign policy that has no desire to spread democracy in the world and engage in nation building.

[Heraclitus]

You guys are mixing beasts here. Hera invokes antipathy 'gainst neocons, those wishing to use US power to influence other nations towards Democracy styled in the image of the US. DriX indicates that social cons need to be silenced in favor of fiscal and libertarian bent conservatism.

The two are not of the same stripe.

Bush era big government are synonymous with social conservatism? Like you notice my primary antipathy is against the neoconish universalise secular religion and the "invade the world, invite the world" policies it entails (we'll bomb you brown folks until you are just like us! Surley if we provide amnesty they will become just like us and concerned with ending mass illegal immigration!)

I don't mind the culture war so much, except that the religious right uses stupid arguments and eventually always looses and in less than a generation consistently embraces formerly liberal positions. Fighting that war unless one is of a very reactionary (and ideologically consistent) bent seems less productive than just agitating for smaller government. Often the the culture war arguments are issues that have relatively minuscule effects but are used as a smoke screen to let them get away with statist, authoritarian and some times even liberal positions on other issues.

Also its anti-science bent is off putting to me. I can sort of understand GW scepticism since its perhaps a good strategy for preventing Green's or over zealous specialists from overstating the case (Climategate shows they do) and in the process hurting the economy and pushing a Gaia-centric value systems, however denying evolution (something Glenn Beck does do) is just disturbing.

[Heraclitus]

DP

[Ogie Oglethorpe]

Bush era big government are synonymous with social conservatism?

You missed the key adjective "compassionate" social conservatism.

With "compassionate", you get to do all kinds of fiscally irresponsible things like senior medical prescription plans. You get to meddle into Terry Schiavo affairs, decide to expand the role of federal government in education without addressing fundamental accountability of teachers unions, and decide to direct appropriate forms of stem cell research. (All culturally targetted things that increased the scope of federal interventionism into every day life of the US citizen.)


You need to remember when Bush ran in 2000 he had no desire to entangle himself in foreign policy. His big push was for no-child left behind. He was all about getting government bigger/more powerful to do things he thought were socially in his wheelhouse.

[Heraclitus]

You missed the key adjective "compassionate" social conservatism.

With "compassionate", you get to do all kinds of fiscally irresponsible things like senior medical prescription plans. You get to meddle into Terry Schiavo affairs, decide to expand the role of federal government in education without addressing fundamental accountability of teachers unions, and decide to direct appropriate forms of stem cell research. (All culturally targetted things that increased the scope of federal interventionism into every day life of the US citizen.)


You need to remember when Bush ran in 2000 he had no desire to entangle himself in foreign policy. His big push was for no-child left behind. He was all about getting government bigger/more powerful to do things he thought were socially in his wheelhouse.

Ah, now I see where the debate is at! Being a radical traditionalist I consider such policies as destructive as their foreign policy, if a bit more politically necessary.

[DriXnaK]

Bottom line, the tea party movement is going to reform the Republican party as long as it can keep up its enthusiasm and won't back down. If the Republicans don't listen, they need to break off from the Republican party and then destroy it.

[Tupac Shakur]

I knew someone was going to start this thread. Please refrain from commentary and pre-celebratory predictions for those of us who are superstitious and dont want to JINX GETTING RID OF EVERY FREAKIN DEM POSSIBLE.

Democrats Could Lose Up To 8,000 Seats In Upcoming Midterm Election

WASHINGTON—According to recent media reports, Democrats stand to lose as many as 8,000 congressional seats and more than 917 gubernatorial races in November's midterm elections. "Republicans are poised to pick up 1,500 seats in Ohio alone, and could wind up with a 23,576-to-12 majority in the Senate," Beltway observer Isaac Hundt said Wednesday, noting the GOP's advantage is likely to increase by Election Day given that its candidates are outspending their opponents by some $900 trillion. "With Democratic disapproval ratings in the quadruple digits, it's a foregone conclusion that Republicans will not only retake Congress, but hold it for the next 20,000 to 25,000 years." Experts also predicted the one-sided election results would cause Barack Obama to die on the spot, at which point the nation's leading conservative talk-radio host would be sworn in as president of the United States forever.

http://www.theonion.com/articles/democrats-could-lose-up-to-8000-seats-in-upcoming,18285/