Israel Declares War on the Middle East Peace Process, Take #80447

[Hauldren Collider]

And before some dumb douchebag tells me I'm being hypocritical because America declared independence from Britain, consider:

1. America is now ****ing rich and independence from Britain allowed us to become rich because we could trade freely
2. Americans didn't want to split away from England because of ethnic hatred. I mean, duh. They WERE English.

[dannubis]

I am saying that Palestinians are using force, among other strategies, to settle the argument of Israel's existence.

Sorry, this was directed at Kuci Jr. Hit the wrong reply link.

[Hueij]

The only advantage Palestinians get from independence would be the ability to:
a. Murder more jews
b. Perpetuate their 14th-century mindset of racism, violence, sexism and general being ****ing backwardness

Wow... If this is your reasoning then I'm allowed to replace "Palestinians" with "USsians", "get" with "got", "would be" with "was" and "14-th-century" with "17th-, 18th-, 19th, 20th and 21st-century".

Yep, sounds about right.

[Heraclitus]

Well yeah I get that. I'm just saying I'm not terribly sympathetic to Palestinian separatism at all.

The only advantage Palestinians get from independence would be the ability to:
a. Murder more jews
b. Perpetuate their 14th-century mindset of racism, violence, sexism and general being ****ing backwardness

So yeah. Freedom, self-determination, all that wonderful ****. Or they could be rich and tolerant.

A tad ethnocentric are we?

[Felch]

To be fair, Muslims think we still are in the 1400s.

[St Jon]

To be fair, Muslims think we still are in the 1400s.

Would you honestly suggest that Orthodox Jews do not?

Would you honestly regard Shulchan Aruch as any gentler than Sharia?

[Hauldren Collider]

Would you honestly suggest that Orthodox Jews do not?

Would you honestly regard Shulchan Aruch as any gentler than Sharia?

Whoah there, no one said anything about Orthodox Jews. What on earth makes you think the Israeli government would ever impose that?

[BlackCat]

Whoah there, no one said anything about Orthodox Jews. What on earth makes you think the Israeli government would ever impose that?

Are you serious ?

[Felch]

You Brits are real uptight about hating Jews. It was a reference to their calendar. Today is the 20th of Shawwal, 1431. You should learn to take your Jew-hating less seriously. Personally I like to focus on how Jews are money grubbing Christ killers that run Hollywood and the Banks, instead of getting all political about housing construction and real estate in the West Bank. That **** is boring.

[Zevico]

Wow... If this is your reasoning then I'm allowed to replace "Palestinians" with "USsians", "get" with "got", "would be" with "was" and "14-th-century" with "17th-, 18th-, 19th, 20th and 21st-century".

Yep, sounds about right.

This is an idiotic exercise in moral equivalence.

The conflict between the United States and the United Kingdom was one between two quasi-democratic (in some respects quite backwards) peoples. The conflict concerned (i) no taxation without representation; (ii) judges being appointed and dismissed "at the pleasure of the governor" of a given colony. (iii) a general outrage at laws being made for the colonies without the assent of the colonies, as opposed to laws outside of the colonies, which were, in the view of the colonies, within the proper ambit of UK legal power even if they happened to regulate, say, both colony and English maritime shipping.

The Israeli-Palestinian conflict is between three groups: (1) a liberal democratic society; (2) Fatah: a Marxist-Leninist group, whose basic ideology is dead, whose members are members merely for the salary and no longer think of themselves as having anything to fight for, whose people tolerate them from fear, and whose very existence is thanks only to the Israeli military, without which the West Bank would probably fall to Hamas ; (3) Hamas: a group who genuinely think that granting power to a "Islamic elite" (as opposed to a Marxist elite) will lead to a social paradise and ultimate victory against "the world" [inter alia, Israel, the United States, Europe etc], and that the following are perfectly acceptable: (i) summary executions; (ii) sex discrimination; (iii) dictatorship; (iv) an end to the rule of law; (v) theft from aid groups to enrich the elite; (vi) indiscriminate murder of civilians to achieve all ends.

[N35t0r]

A friend once said we just wall all of the middle east up and check back in a couple of decades.

We can also include most (all?) of Africa while we're at it.

[BlackCat]

Bet your friend doesn't have a car or that he's a looney

[N35t0r]

At least until I left school (he was a schoolmate), Argentina was a net exporter of oil+derivates, so it not our problem

But you can add a huge pipe and tell them you'll toss in some weapons for every n barrells they pump out

[Zevico]

Would you honestly suggest that Orthodox Jews do not?

This is an ignorant comment.
Orthodox Jews openly participate in democracies around the world and they embrace democratic values.

Would you honestly regard Shulchan Aruch as any gentler than Sharia?

This is another ignorant comment.
There is nothing wrong with upholding certain religious obligation in a democratic society. Overall it is the duty of the people as a whole to ensure that every individual has the choice to choose what path they will.
Orthodox Jews recognise this. For them, Jewish law has a social, not a legal consequence. Those who leave the faith are not subjected to honour killings or stoning.
As to those who wish establish a quasi-theocratic state, they are in a distinct position, and form a minority within their own respective sect, whether it be Orthodox or ultra-Orthodox [such sects are distinct and the respective minority theocrats are in conflict with one another].
In short, the vast majority of Orthodox Jews have moved on to the 21st century.

Incidentally, Shulchan Aruch is not the Jewish code of law. Halacha is Jewish law. Shulchan Aruch is a comment writtten by one rabbi centuries ago on aspects of Jewish law. The question you are trying to pose is whether there is some equivalence between Halacha and Sharia. As I have tried to point out, most Jews regard their Jewish law as not imposing legal punishments upon their adherents. Nor do they hold themselves in higher regard than other sects or peoples.

[BlackCat]

At least until I left school (he was a schoolmate), Argentina was a net exporter of oil+derivates, so it not our problem

But you can add a huge pipe and tell them you'll toss in some weapons for every n barrells they pump out

Well, denmark are (as far as I know) stll net exporters, but not for long. Though, we can probably buy some norvegian for a period.