Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Israel Declares War on the Middle East Peace Process, Take #80447

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Israel Declares War on the Middle East Peace Process, Take #80447

    Songs of praise as the diggers and cement mixers start up again

    Women raised their arms aloft as they swayed to pan pipe music in the setting sun, Christian pilgrims from Finland sang and banged on their tambourines, while supporters released thousands of blue and white balloons, the colours of Israel's flag, into the sky.

    This was a celebratory rally to mark the end of Israel's 10-month construction freeze in the Jewish settlement of Revava in the West Bank amid an atmosphere of jubilation and festivity.

    As politicians prepared to take the stage, a spokesman for a right-wing legislator said the request for "restraint" from the settlers from the Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, would be "respectfully declined".

    Instead the leaders made a symbolic start on their vow to resume the building of 2,000 homes as soon as the freeze expired at midnight last night. They laid the cement foundation for a new kindergarten in the adjacent Kiryat Netafim.

    "Tonight, we place this miserable decision back into the dustbin of history," Danny Danon, a Likud parliamentarian, told the crowd.

    Around 2,000 people, many of them from Mr Netanyahu's right-wing Likud party, packed into a sandy clearing ringed by caravans and newly built homes. A banner above the makeshift stage said: "We salute the pioneers of Judaea and Samaria".

    "We want to build, God gave us this land," said Razalia, a Russian immigrant in her sixties who moved to Israel 20 years ago. "What's so awful about what we're doing here?"

    Among the most enthusiastic supporters were Christian evangelicals, many of whom had travelled from as far afield as the United States and China, and who waved banners reading: "We love Israel".

    "We knew this was happening today, and we wanted to stand in support for all of Israel and God's land," said Paulette, a Christian who made the trip from Canada. "We love the Israelites, we love God's way."

    When asked if she supported a land for the Palestinians, she admitted she was "not familiar" with the politics.

    Many settlers are deeply sceptical that Washington, which is driving renewed peace negotiations, can broker a deal between Israel and the Palestinians to deliver a two- state solution.

    For some, a Palestinian state presents an existential threat to the State of Israel. "It's just not possible to reach an agreement. They don't want us here," said Mark, an elderly immigrant from Russia.

    Bryna, an Israeli living in the large settlement of Ma'ale Adumim, just outside of Jerusalem, said, "The so-called West Bank is very strategic. If the Arabs controlled it, they could kill us from here."

    Some 300,000 Israelis live in Jewish settlements in the occupied West Bank, all of them illegal under international law. While many are lured by tax breaks and cheap housing, a core of settlers believes that they are reclaiming the land promised to them by God.

    The settlements have expanded rapidly since the early 1970s and have emerged as an early stumbling block in the newly revived peace talks.

    The Palestinians argue that Israel cannot negotiate in good faith as long as it builds on land that it may one day have to give up to make way for an independent Palestinian state.

    Settlers remain unmoved, although underneath yesterday's festivity, there was an undercurrent of concern that Mr Netanyahu could yet break with his right-wing electorate and cave in to US demands to make concessions for peace. "We're still worried, we know what happened before," said Gidon Ariel, a member of the Likud Central Committee, referring to Israel's disengagement from Gaza five years ago. "We're not so easily convinced that it can't happen again."
    And so the cycle continues - Israel doesn't want peace - being at a permanent state of war is the country's raison d'etre...

    For shame Israel, for shame!
    Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

  • #2
    Building homes is shameful?
    John Brown did nothing wrong.

    Comment


    • #3
      Within 2 generations people will be able to say 'I was born here, this is my home'. The Israeli homes are being built in Palestinian land, rather than waiting for legal permission. Its an occupation via another mechanism
      Safer worlds through superior firepower

      Comment


      • #4
        It is when they are building them illegally under international law on occupied territory.
        Is it me, or is MOBIUS a horrible person?

        Comment


        • #5
          So in protest of a few homes being built that happen to have Jews in them, the Palestinians would seek to attack schools and hospitals with rockets? They would wage war over the fact that Jews live in their neighborhood. Sympathy is escaping me.
          If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
          ){ :|:& };:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
            So in protest of a few homes being built that happen to have Jews in them, the Palestinians would seek to attack schools and hospitals with rockets? They would wage war over the fact that Jews live in their neighborhood. Sympathy is escaping me.
            Netanyahu apparently told these Jews to exercise restraint but they don't care.
            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

            Comment


            • #7
              call me when its 80886th violation
              Socrates: "Good is That at which all things aim, If one knows what the good is, one will always do what is good." Brian: "Romanes eunt domus"
              GW 2013: "and juistin bieber is gay with me and we have 10 kids we live in u.s.a in the white house with obama"

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by OneFootInTheGrave View Post
                call me when its 80886th violation
                Unfortunately any resolution is unlikley so version 90,001 is likely as well . Significant portions of the Arab world continues to take the position that Israel (of any size) should not exist and should be eradicated. Its hardly the opener for good and fruitful peace negotiations.

                I am currently reading a history of Israel. While somewhat pro-Isreal it is critical in tone when it discusses the moves to settle the occupied territorities. The reality is that Israll generally viewed themselves as upstarts and underdogs fighting for their very survival and many Israelis continue to be uncomfortable with any role as an occupier. This is balanced somewhat by a real security concern.

                Here are some somewhat relevant positions that I believe are largely held by Israel

                1. There was no Palistinian people. There were Arabs in Egypt, Iraq, Saudi, (Trans)Jordan, Syria, Kuwait and several other nations on the Arabiian peninsula but these "nations" were largely western construction.

                2. The Arabs controlled the vast majority of the lands on the Peninsula and could have "settled" any displaced persons from the various conflicts in any number of the large tracts of largely empty lands. Israel itself settled far more people, both in comparison to population and to available land (jews fleeing Eurpoe and later many Russian Jews etc ) in a far shorter period. Israel believes that the sole reason that refugee camps remain is that various Arab countries wish to have them rermain as a focus for hatred on Israel.

                3. Israel mostly believes it has acted with restraint in its dealings with enemies that call for their extermination. They see themselves as benevolent occupiers that allow a degree of autonomy that many Arab peoples would not enjoy if they were part of any one of the nearby Arab countries

                4. This settler issue is a very divisive one in Israeli politics.
                You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                Comment


                • #9
                  1. There was no Palistinian people. There were Arabs in Egypt, Iraq, Saudi, (Trans)Jordan, Syria, Kuwait and several other nations on the Arabiian peninsula but these "nations" were largely western construction.
                  Huh? No Arabs in the Levant? I don't think they could truly believe that unless they've been brain-washed.


                  2. The Arabs controlled the vast majority of the lands on the Peninsula and could have "settled" any displaced persons from the various conflicts in any number of the large tracts of largely empty lands. Israel itself settled far more people, both in comparison to population and to available land (jews fleeing Eurpoe and later many Russian Jews etc ) in a far shorter period. Israel believes that the sole reason that refugee camps remain is that various Arab countries wish to have them rermain as a focus for hatred on Israel.
                  But Arabs don't like Palestinians
                  "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                  "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                    So in protest of a tourists in Poland that happen to have German military uniforms, the British have declared war? They would wage war over the fact over mildly over-boisterous sightseeing? Sympathy is escaping me.

                    HC in 1939.
                    The genesis of the "evil Finn" concept- Evil, evil Finland

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Bugs ****ing Bunny View Post
                      HC in 1939.
                      Don't think HC can understand that (it's something european and that might confuse him) - a better example would be "squatters settle on indian territory - indians pissed - sqatters call for cavalry".
                      With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                      Steven Weinberg

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                        Huh? No Arabs in the Levant? I don't think they could truly believe that unless they've been brain-washed.
                        The viewpoints isn't that there are "no Arabs" in Palestine - Its more that the Arabs have a huge landmass for 'their' homeland. All Israel wanted/purchased/conquered was a relatively small area
                        You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I'm no expert but from my understanding, while the Arab governments are quick to support Palestinian sovereignty, it's moreso because they want to have a political stance against Israel and also because they want the Palestinians to get the hell out of their countries. Palestinian-Arab relations are very sour except when it comes to Palestinian sovereignty which is the one area where they are in much agreement.

                          Palestinians are often viewed as lawless and useless refugees who drain resources and have a tendency to militant radicalism which undermines the power of the government of the country in which they are inhabiting (ie- Lebanon). That is why there were incidents like Black September in Jordan. I have also seen similar attitudes displayed by Arabs in America against Palestinian Americans. Arabs and Palestinians are generally not fond of one another.
                          "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                          "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Flubber View Post
                            The viewpoints isn't that there are "no Arabs" in Palestine - Its more that the Arabs have a huge landmass for 'their' homeland. All Israel wanted/purchased/conquered was a relatively small area
                            Yeah but there are 358 million Arabs and most of the land where they live is desert.
                            "Flutie was better than Kelly, Elway, Esiason and Cunningham." - Ben Kenobi
                            "I have nothing against Wilson, but he's nowhere near the same calibre of QB as Flutie. Flutie threw for 5k+ yards in the CFL." -Ben Kenobi

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Al B. Sure! View Post
                              Yeah but there are 358 million Arabs and most of the land where they live is desert.
                              Much of the land the early Jews settled was desert , or swamp (in many years Israel faced huge problems with malaria) or mountaintop. The absentee Arab landlords loved collecting the purchase price from those "idiot Jews". But reclaiming land was seen as some sort of divine mission and the local Arabs were shocked at what those jews made productive. By the time there were any "displaced Arabs", the examples of these methods were available for all to see and most of the work just involved backbreaking labour. reclaiming desser and swamps could have created work for thousands and thousands and they could have been creating their own lands to live in.

                              Oh and the locals always tried to push out the Jews to the point where they had a method to create "tower and barricade" communities

                              To be clear I do not generally support Israeli settlement in the West Bank but I do have generally a freaking lot of sympathy for their situation given the historical context.

                              Its like the Gaza blockade busters. I don't like what Israel did but at the same time it was laughable some of the countries that were trying to provide 'aid"
                              You don't get to 300 losses without being a pretty exceptional goaltender.-- Ben Kenobi speaking of Roberto Luongo

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X