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  • #61
    This is a DOM implementation gripe, not a DOM gripe. I presume you are using PHP, in which case you cannot gripe about the implementation of anything as PHP is a ghastly, horrible language and implementation.
    It's libxml2, so wouldn't it be the same for all languages that use libxml2?

    The most annoying kid was convinced Haskell was the best language ever and could be used for everything.

    Personally, I still haven't figured out what the point of pure functional programming is. Closures, anonymous functions and lambdas are nice though.
    If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
    ){ :|:& };:

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    • #62
      Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
      Asher: The reason I'm arguing this with you is not so much as I'm trying to prove you wrong so much as hear you prove me wrong. I'm learning a lot from this discussion.

      Sorry if it comes off as arrogant.
      I wouldn't quite say you're arrogant...was referring to a few of my co-op students.

      As for libxml2...probably. But Gnome-originated projects and libraries are seldom well designed.
      "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
      Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

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      • #63
        By the way Asher, another observation about XSLT: It's like LISP meets COBOL. The verbosity of the latter and the parens of death of the former, but without any of the good features of either (if cobol HAS any good features).
        If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
        ){ :|:& };:

        Comment

        • #64
          I think someone needs to hire HC and tell him to program everything in Scheme.

          JM
          Jon Miller-
          I AM.CANADIAN
          GENERATION 35: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation. Social experiment.

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          • #65
            Even better, he should do it in VB
            With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

            Steven Weinberg

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            • #66
              I used to program in Visual Basic. When I was in elementary school.

              My programs were horrible. I look at them now and was like, wtf, I wrote that ****?

              I've never used scheme. I played with clisp a bit on a friend's computer a while back, he got real into it and then suddenly discovered python and forgot about it.
              If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
              ){ :|:& };:

              Comment

              • #67
                Asher will maybe hate it, but I agree with him - XML/XSLT/Schemas is pretty good tools handling data especially when language is a matter. XML only fails when the model becomes too complex - a one megabyte schema isn't good.
                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                Steven Weinberg

                Comment

                • #68
                  BlackCat: I think it also fails when you're trying to do something simple. On my school's intranet, you can drag these boxes around the interface and it'll remember where you put them. As I recall it sends JSON back and forth with a little tiny object that's basically "the box is HERE now" and such. It was a lot easier to do than XML and we've never had problems with it.

                  JSON doesn't scale the way XML does. Using XML for that is like trying to use a tape measure instead of calipers, and using JSON for whatever Asher does in lotso-programmer-land is like using the calipers to try to find the length of your yard...

                  That said, I think XML is far from ideal. I think that for the problems it solves it is for the most part a unique solution. I also think that in a lot of places, XML is misused because it's a buzzword. But it's got inertia and loads of people have switched to it. There might be a better solution out there, but it doesn't have wide enough adoption. Maybe in 10 years.
                  If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                  ){ :|:& };:

                  Comment

                  • #69
                    Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                    I used to program in Visual Basic. When I was in elementary school.

                    My programs were horrible. I look at them now and was like, wtf, I wrote that ****?
                    Well, that was probaly not VB's fault

                    The real problem with VB is that if you do it "strictly ballroom" then you will end up with a horrible inefficient program.
                    With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                    Steven Weinberg

                    Comment

                    • #70
                      Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                      Well, that was probaly not VB's fault

                      The real problem with VB is that if you do it "strictly ballroom" then you will end up with a horrible inefficient program.
                      Yeah it was probably because I was in fourth grade and wasn't aware of the existence of for loops and thought global variables were the best thing since sliced bread

                      But name some other fourth graders who could program in visual basic, albeit horribly.

                      (I'm sure there are other people who started programming early but I still feel special about it )
                      If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                      ){ :|:& };:

                      Comment

                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BlackCat View Post
                        Even better, he should do it in VB
                        6 or .NET?
                        "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                        Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                        Comment

                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                          By the way Asher, another observation about XSLT: It's like LISP meets COBOL. The verbosity of the latter and the parens of death of the former, but without any of the good features of either (if cobol HAS any good features).
                          I think you're obsessing over the syntax more than the power and functionality the technologies give you. Syntax rarely bothers me, all languages are different and it's more useful to know when to apply which technology. The most valuable technological people in an organizations are not the people who are exceptionally good at one or two languages, it's the people who know exactly which technology to use in which situation.

                          The product I'm working on now uses C++, C#, XAML (WPF), Objective C, Javascript, Flash (ActionScript), HTML/CSS, XML (and XSLT), etc. It's a complete mixture of a bunch of different things.

                          I'm getting off-topic here though. I just don't mind the XSLT syntax, but I do really appreciate what it can do for me. We currently use XSLT in the view controller as part our MVC framework -- we use XSLT to enable unit texting of the View components (not just the usual model & controller). The view serializes the model into XML and uses XSLT to transform to the appropriate destination markup (XAML, SML [internal XML markup for Mac/Linux we use], or HTML [for web interfaces]). It's kickass, and supremely elegant. Not to mention platform agnostic, which is very important when you're writing software that needs to run on Windows, Mac, and Linux.

                          And in case you ask, we embed Gecko for the HTML renderer and Tracemonkey (FF3.6 javascript runtime) for JS parsing.
                          "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                          Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                          Comment

                          • #73
                            Originally posted by Asher View Post
                            6 or .NET?
                            I used 6. Never used .net. I hear it's better and I hear it's worse. Never used it, wouldn't know.
                            If there is no sound in space, how come you can hear the lasers?
                            ){ :|:& };:

                            Comment

                            • #74
                              Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                              I used 6. Never used .net. I hear it's better and I hear it's worse. Never used it, wouldn't know.
                              It is definitely far better. The people who say it's worse are VB6 programmers who don't like new things.
                              "The issue is there are still many people out there that use religion as a crutch for bigotry and hate. Like Ben."
                              Ben Kenobi: "That means I'm doing something right. "

                              Comment

                              • #75
                                Originally posted by Hauldren Collider View Post
                                BlackCat: I think it also fails when you're trying to do something simple. On my school's intranet, you can drag these boxes around the interface and it'll remember where you put them. As I recall it sends JSON back and forth with a little tiny object that's basically "the box is HERE now" and such. It was a lot easier to do than XML and we've never had problems with it.

                                JSON doesn't scale the way XML does. Using XML for that is like trying to use a tape measure instead of calipers, and using JSON for whatever Asher does in lotso-programmer-land is like using the calipers to try to find the length of your yard...

                                That said, I think XML is far from ideal. I think that for the problems it solves it is for the most part a unique solution. I also think that in a lot of places, XML is misused because it's a buzzword. But it's got inertia and loads of people have switched to it. There might be a better solution out there, but it doesn't have wide enough adoption. Maybe in 10 years.
                                XML is actually pretty old comuterwise, so I really don't get this "XML is a buzzword". It was some 10 years or so ago, but today it's just an ordinary tool.

                                The good thing about XML is that it scales so easily and the tools are easy to use (well, XSLT is a pita).
                                With or without religion, you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion.

                                Steven Weinberg

                                Comment

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