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Almost raged myself out of a business meeting today

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  • Almost raged myself out of a business meeting today

    ... but managed to shut my mouth and just leave with an excuse.

    We've used this one sales guy for a while - mostly because he works for free, I mean provision based salary. We'd never hire a guy who is unable to close deals with the rate he does, second of all he is not knowledgable enough of the field we're in and thirdly, he does not speak english. So sufficient to say, we don't want the guy, but if he sells something on his own time for us, we'll give him a percentage of it.

    Now we know even that was too much and that we made a mistake. Remember when I say he is not knowledgable of our field? I mean that he does not know a single thing about it until we taught him the pitch. Just the pitch, and little bit behind the scenes, as in if they ask this, these are the customer benefits. Kind of like motivation speech, bullet points for why this is important, and why we do what we do and why we are good at it; most importantly, we want to get to know you and help you, and you will benefit in such and such ways.

    Now, he made few slides according to what I told him. I even inspected the slides many times and said he is not allowed to show them to anyone yet. I made changes, sent him revised versions, because he does not know about the field (or the product), so he has to have it in terms understood by everyone. He then got caught using the same slides and presenting them as his own ideas. Yes, he had taken the slides we'd work together, that had COMPANY NAME - CONFIDENTIAL written all over it. This sales man actually changed the company name to something else and tried to sell stuff.

    I was, naturally, pissed off. I told him he can't do that. Today I met him. He told me that if I think he did something wrong (not even admitting that it is wrong to do that kind of a thing!!!) then we have to be more clear about the rules. Dealing with idiots like this is difficult. I don't think we need to make extra rules for not breaking the law, or confidential material of my company.

    But then the best part came after that.... he expressed his will to set up his own company, that would do few things... few services. The best part is, it's something WE ALREADY DO!!!!! He used the words "in my experience, this and this is the biggest problem..." as in hey, you just got here, we have collective experience of decades presented, we are published in academic journals, conferences, we hold meetings that are attended by officials from ministries, we design products and new solutions, collectively, we are well established as entities as well as individuals by now. And this sales guy, who barely knows how to use Skype but cannot even configure an e-mail client confidently says to my face how these, based on his own experience, issues, are going to be his services.

    The guy basically just stole our ideas and calls them his own. This is not a problem per se. He won't be getting any action. Because there's no one to DO these things he wants to sell. Good luck shopping outside our backyard. The problem is, while we keep doing what we do, this sales guy will probably think we stole his idea and sue us for it. Of course we can prove that we've been doing this for a long time already. My problem is, I don't want to deal with it anymore. I don't want to see the guy, hear from him, I don't want to know anything about him.

    Jeesh... I've never had anyone saying to my face about a business plan solely based on things I've taught them personally. And them saying it was their idea, even when they still don't know what the **** it is that they're talking about.

    Word to the wise: never ever think a free deal is free. There are weird folks out there who will do the weirdest things, and even though you are right about it, it might still bite you in the ass.
    In da butt.
    "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
    THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
    "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

  • #2
    My recommended course of treatment: SMACKDOWN!

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    • #3
      i can imagine it's pretty frustrating but if the guys an idiot then letting him set up in competition would be no bad thing. you can even get rid of him to let him concentrate on his new venture and then sit back and watch him fail.
      "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

      "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

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      • #4
        Actually, Pekka. I can speak English. Thank you very much.
        “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
        "Capitalism ho!"

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        • #5
          while i would lack the effort to do such a thing myself, making a 200 page or so list of rules and having employees sign on the line before employment is a wise business practice. Hire a respected lawyer to double check it for loopholes.

          People could (and probably do) make millions off of twisting the law to their favor. I remember one story of a lady, with no other source of income, that literally made a living from suing people. She even put a company out of business IIRC.
          The Wizard of AAHZ

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          • #6
            c0ckney, exactly. My worry is the guy will actually claim that what he will do (copied from us and what we consider our assets and protect), is actually something he owns and thus we somehow are exploiting him. It's crazy, I know, but I'm not the only one who thought this is actually possible.

            So yesterday evening I looked more into it. The guy is like 40 something. He shows no work history other than us and the place he supposedly quit before us. So his work history starts from Jan 2009, and he quits the job in 5 months, after that he is with us, and even then we have no job contracts, he works provision-based. Basically the guy has NO work history. Also, no educational history. It's our fault that we never did really do a background check. Lesson learned. He dropped into our network from word to mouth, now we have to go back in time and see whose mouth it was that came to our ear in our network and give them some feedback.

            Also he went lengths how his old employer was in the wrong and owes him like thousands of euros in salaries, how they broke the deal, but he didn't want to sue because oh well, life is about other things than money as well. Until yesterday I believed him, but now, I'm actually interested in hearing the other company's opinion on what happened. Just to know if we're dealing with a psycho.
            In da butt.
            "Do not worry if others do not understand you. Instead worry if you do not understand others." - Confucius
            THE UNDEFEATED SUPERCITIZEN w:4 t:2 l:1 (DON'T ASK!)
            "God is dead" - Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" - God.

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            • #7
              The clue is in he "quit" his job after 5 months. Very few people do this unless there is another job lined up (unless the employers are complete and utter arseholes, not so common). I've heard a simiilar story about someone who jumped from job to job recently...turns out she is impossible to work with and is a huge bully. Not nice traits.
              Speaking of Erith:

              "It's not twinned with anywhere, but it does have a suicide pact with Dagenham" - Linda Smith

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              • #8
                Originally posted by DaShi View Post
                Actually, Pekka. I can speak English. Thank you very much.
                I've never seen any evidence of that.
                Jon Miller: MikeH speaks the truth
                Jon Miller: MikeH is a shockingly revolting dolt and a masturbatory urine-reeking sideshow freak whose word is as valuable as an aging cow paddy.
                We've got both kinds

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Pekka View Post
                  c0ckney, exactly. My worry is the guy will actually claim that what he will do (copied from us and what we consider our assets and protect), is actually something he owns and thus we somehow are exploiting him. It's crazy, I know, but I'm not the only one who thought this is actually possible.
                  yeah, this could be a problem, but you said yourself in the OP that you can prove they're your ideas and assets, so you shouldn't need to worry. in fact if the guy does try to steal your copyrighted stuff and set up, you can get your lawyers to send him a nasty letter threatening to sue and ruin him etc. if you're really worried that he might go down the legal avenue, you're in the right, so it's best to get in there first! it's a pain in the arse, sure, but it sounds like this guy is a joke and you'll be able to brush him off.

                  or you could always try plan b (which is, of course, laying a smackdown on his punk arse!)
                  "The Christian way has not been tried and found wanting, it has been found to be hard and left untried" - GK Chesterton.

                  "The most obvious predicition about the future is that it will be mostly like the past" - Alain de Botton

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I think the idea is that its expensive for a company to sue or be sued, in financial terms (lawyers fees) and time consumed (management spending time resolving the dispute rather than building new business)

                    An individual with little work history and no paper assets would be laughing if a company tried to sue him as it would hurt the company far more than it would hurt him.

                    If its really bothering you go pour used motor oil through his sun roof. its disgusting, impossible to get out, and as an added bonus its carcinogenic.
                    Safer worlds through superior firepower

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                    • #11
                      Beat the crap out of him. Finland's anti-violence laws are lax.
                      “As a lifelong member of the Columbia Business School community, I adhere to the principles of truth, integrity, and respect. I will not lie, cheat, steal, or tolerate those who do.”
                      "Capitalism ho!"

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                      • #12
                        mostly because he works for free, I mean provision based salary.
                        This is a d*** move by the way on the part of your company, especially if everyone else is paid a proper salary.

                        I've worked on commission before, basically, it sends the message to the 'employee' that you really don't give a damn about them.

                        It's ok if it's everyone, and everyone has to work their butts off. As a special deal, I wouldn't be surprised at all if this employee tried to rework his deal more to his advantage.

                        Here's a secret. You're going to have to train and work with this guy if you want him to be any sort of benefit to the company. Bite the bullet, pay him properly, get him up to speed. Or fire him outright.

                        I had another situation where my former company let me go due to complaints from the other drivers. I then had the option of working for their direct competitor. I literally had my phone ringing off the hook. The problem is that the other company gets it's ass kicked routinely and doesn't pay it's drivers as much as a result.

                        So I talked to the other company and told them I would help them design a different system, similar to what the competition has, but adapted for them. An 'improvement' if you will on the other system. He balked. So, in general companies usually suck for a reason.
                        Scouse Git (2) La Fayette Adam Smith Solomwi and Loinburger will not be forgotten.
                        "Remember the night we broke the windows in this old house? This is what I wished for..."
                        2015 APOLYTON FANTASY FOOTBALL CHAMPION!

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                        • #13
                          Your company did the right thing limiting him to commission. He sounds like a real buffoon.

                          There is no way I would expend any effort on a person like this.
                          You're lucky he's not a real employee because it will be easier to dump him.
                          Boot his butt as far as you can.

                          And you should call his previous company, it sound like it would be worth the effort.
                          It's almost as if all his overconfident, absolutist assertions were spoonfed to him by a trusted website or subreddit. Sheeple
                          RIP Tony Bogey & Baron O

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                          • #14
                            Do what Rah just wrote.
                            I need a foot massage

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                            • #15
                              Just skimmed through the OP.

                              Anyway, the guy who provided „confidential use only“ documents to a simple reseller should be fired immediately.


                              Oh wait!
                              "Football is like chess, only without the dice." Lukas Podolski

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