Hey, have you been working out?

[Jon Miller]

Attempts at least:

5/4/3 chinups
6/6/4 lunges (27/27/27)
stomach - spinal rotation
5/4/4 pullups
20/15/15 back extensions - these do glutes and hamstrings too I think (0/0/5)
cable row
bicep curl

JM

[Provost Harrison]

OMFG.

[Jon Miller]

I do the lunges because of the spinal loading. My leg press/machine squat is ~170 kg. My standard squat is ~60 kg. When I start to have more than ~50 kg it is hard on my back/spine/etc.

Bicep curl is ~31 kg.
Tricep pulldown is ~30 kg.

Machine bench I mean like an isolateral/etc machine. For squat I mean something where there is support for your back and a weight (connected to a cable, I guess). They have had them at both gyms I have went to (at least the same basic idea). I don't know if they had them at my university gym, I didn't do squats then.

I have tried out the smith machine for both bench and squat though. I don't feel as comfortable using it and prefer dumbbells.

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ame/hack-squat This is sorta what I mean by machine squat, but with cables so that you are pushing up instead of lying down sorta. However, there is support for the back.

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

Oh and since you asked about suicides... Suicides are possibly the worst exercise ever devised, maybe second to only burpees. Suicides:

[Al B. Sure!]

Well assistance exercises have their place in getting you over humps so yeah, someone who has stalled on their bench press could benefit from doing close grip bench press or flys or something similar, although you generally should still do the main lift (bench in this case) while doing the assisted exercises. Sometimes, people might do the main lift 2-3 times a week and the assistance lifts on the other days or do it on the same days but after the main lift. The assistance exercise isn't expected to be taxing enough that it should mess with recovery (ie- you're not supposed to go as heavy as you can on the assistance exercises).

Stalling is tricky. I've kind of kept stalling on my squats but all I've heard is just keep at it. Do some assistance exercises and keep at it. As long as you're eating well enough to sustain muscle growth, you'll eventually get over the hump. Realistically, the point at which the average man should expect to see limited further improvement is a long way off from where either of us are.


By machine squats and machine bench, I assume you mean Smith Machine, right?


Don't do that. The problem with it is those were designed to be 'safety' machines that could be used without spotters but they cause problems as well. They create an unnatural bar path. Yeah, ideally, a squat or a bench press is a straight and vertical movement but it's better to have some natural deviation from that than be forced into a straight-bar path artificially by a machine. I'm puzzled by the popularity of those machines because it seems so obvious that human bodies are not perfectly balanced and as you get tired, you naturally will sway or move too much forward or to the side or something, but to constrain yourself artificially to a specific path in light of this, seems obviously unnatural and could cause injury.

[Al B. Sure!]

Yeah weighted lunges are tough. They should be the most intense thing you do because they involve so much of your body. The exercise description just says quads, glutes, hamstrings, and calves, but you're working more than that as your arms/shoulders have tension from holding the dumbbells, your abs and lower back have to be tight to stabilize yourself, etc.

Everything I've read though has indicated that squats are ultimately superior to lunges:

Unilateral vs. Bilateral

A common belief is that unilateral exercises activate more glute muscle. As I alluded to earlier, lunges might be the best exercise at making the glutes sore due to the extreme tension on the muscle in a deep-stretch position. But according to my experiments, bilateral movements activate more glute than unilateral movements.

This is seen across the board, from quad dominant movements (squats vs. lunges) to hip dominant movements (deadlifts vs. single leg RDL's) to bent knee hip dominant movements (hip thrusts vs. single leg hip thrusts).

This is due to the increased inherent stability involved in bilateral lifts. Single leg training definitely has its place due to balance, multiplanar stability, coordination, sport-specific training, and decreased spinal loading, but double leg training should always be prioritized regardless of the training goal.

http://www.t-nation.com/testosterone-magazine-623#inside-the-muscles

However, again, some people have concerns about that last part (spinal loading inherent in squats) so that's something to be worried about.

Squats and bench being your normal focus are good. I'm still not a fan of lat pull downs. There's nothing pull downs provide that pullups don't.

[Jon Miller]

Despite me loving bench, and I like dumbells, I have a problem with it. Basically, when I first started lifting again over 4 years ago I went up rapidly to doing 60-65 lbs for each dumbell. Then I stopped improving basically, I went up to 70 but couldn't get past it (despite doing 3x10 on it for a while). About 1.5 years ago I decided that I could attempt to gain muscle by gaining mass. I was ~170 lbs, I gained up to ~180 lbs (and have been above 180 lbs since ), I did manage barely lift 75 lb dumbells. I think I only managed it on 4-5 occasions and most of those I did only one set or two sets (although I could do 6-10 reps in a set when I could manage it).

Because of this, I sometimes try another exercise for a bit, hoping to strengthen something else which is needed so that I can improve my bench.

What goes up the easiest is machine bench and machine squat. Machine squat makes me a bit nervous though, my legs get a lot stronger but my control and back don't increase correspondingly. Machine bench seems a bit wasted (what does it matter if I can do a set of 4 at >200 lbs?).

I basically have made my squat goal, although I would be happy if it went up. My bench goal was 85-90 lb dumbells which I have always been short of.

JM

[Jon Miller]

Sounds like I have a similar problem with my right shoulder.

I have almost always focused on bench and my motion with fly type exercises is really weak relatively, so I decided to focus on it for a bit.

Lunges are very solid exercises, and my body responds well to them. As such I focus on the weaker areas of my body. My back is one of them, so I feel like squats and deadlifts and chinups/etc is too much for a time. Also the lunges aren't occasional, they are probably the most intense workout that I do 2 days every week. My lunges are like this but I step forward and not back: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...ell-rear-lunge

Squats, lat pull downs, and bench are my normal focus exercises.

I have been going to the gym 4 days a week recently, which is really heavy for me. Generally I try for 3 but only make 2.

When I say stomach over heads I mean something like this: http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercise...bbell-pullover

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

I get shoulder pain on dips for some reason. Right along the clavicle and the rotator cuff on my right shoulder. I think it's a rotator cuff weakness. If the pain is at the same spot, you may have whatever issue I have (which I think is rotator cuff weakness). There's exercises with light weights you can do such as lateral raises and side raises that are supposed to help with this. I've just been lazy keeping up with them but they have definitely helped but it's not 100% yet.

I'm curious about why you choose to do cable flys as a 'key lift'. I don't do them but generally I've seen people consider them more a supplementary or assistance exercise. Bench press is usually the primary 'chest' (i use that term loosely since bench press is not an isolated movement) exercise that people do. There's also a bit more carry-over between bench press and pushups, dips, and shoulder presses.

I do think you should reorganize your training schedule a bit. In my opinion, things like lateral raises, tricep pulldowns, and flys are more supplementary because they're more isolated exercises. As a novice, it's better to do compound exercises to ensure more balance in your muscles and prevent injuries.

Here:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/finder/saved/id/5011/main-muscle/chest-glutes

I went and used the actually pretty cool bodybuilding.com exercise database set to search for only beginner, compound lifts for the major muscle groups. Now, the search is very chest-heavy but that's only because there are many chest exercises in their database; don't let the number of exercises indicate importance.

You could pick some exercises from there, noting the different groups.

I could help you further if I know how many days you prefer to go to the gym and if you have any equipment limitations at the gym.

Honestly, I do think you'd probably be best served by doing something similar to what I'm doing with bench press, shoulder press, squats, deadlifts, and chinups. That's really a great combination of exercises because they're all compound exercises that hit every part of your body except maybe the calves (but you run so that's not an issue). I notice your exercises are lacking in much 'leg' work aside from occasional lunges and your running.

[Al B. Sure!]

stomach over head

What is that?

[Jon Miller]

Ran to work today.

Will bike home.

Short duration lifting, ended up OK because of discomfort.

6/6/6 assisted dips (-10/-10/10)
10/8/7 cable flys (40/40/40)
stomach (spine rotation)
8/8/6 vertical press (11/11/11)
8/6/5 stomach over head (27/27/27)

Once more my shoulder became discomforted during the dips. This often happens, and then I can't put my all into the cable flys/vertical presses (Which are suppose to be my key lifts). I think I am going to just quit them entirely and pick something else for my warmup.

Maybe negative, high reps machine incline press? Would change to:
machine press
vertical press
stomach
cable fly
lateral raise
stomach/shoulder shrugs/adductor/abductor/etc
stomach over head (are these suicides?)
tricep pulldowns

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

Good.

As for me, I did 7 or 8 sets of 11 chinups distributed throughout my workout. Bench 3x5x170lbs; Deadlift 1x5x225; Squat 3x5x210. Low weight, I know, but that's the point. It's a steady program designed to add weight to the bar each workout.

[Jon Miller]

I land and lift from my front of my foot. I don't land on my heels. I feel very 'forward'.

JM

[Al B. Sure!]

Your calves will hurt. Are you also fore-foot running?

[Jon Miller]

Shins are front part? Yeah, everything right now feels fine but my calves ache a bit (not in a bad way).

I worry that might feet aren't use to it, they feel fine right now.

JM