Those damn ignorant racists at the New York Times!

[Heraclitus]

For a man with a hammer everything looks like a nail.

This is true. I've already admitted I'm currently obsessed with the topic.


However. If racial differences do exist in a hypothetical world wouldn't the above make you uneasy? The unfairness of it all is staggering.

That's the world I live in, that's why I sometimes get emotional about this.

Most other people live in a world where there are no differences in ability but there are differences in outcome. So they get emotional about the vast unfairness too.

[Heraclitus]

Uhhh... you're "supposed" proof shows that a SINGLE school, is CONSIDERING it. Where in that proof of yours does it show that MANY US schools are ACTUALLY doing it

Very well. Once school not many. Are you saying that the entire school debate in the US isn't centered around achievement gaps? Is it really hard to imagine more schools won't be doing this or things like this to disadvantage White, Jewish and East Asian children?

[MikeH]

Some crackpots suggesting something mental is your evidence? Did it come to anything? I assume that they turned down the proposal as retarded since it was 7 months ago they were due to discuss it and you didn't post the story saying they'd closed labs.

Ah, you read the follow-up story and you see that the issue is that the labs were happening outside normal school hours, so the problem was that some minorities were less likely to attend classes outside normal hours.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/92510/archives/2010/02/02/berkeley-science-labs-compromise

And it's a school with a long history of racial inequality and controversy.

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/eastbay/separate-and-unequal-at-berkeleys-small-schools/Content?oid=1176884

Let's find examples of lots of schools closing science labs or admit this is a one off silly story.

[Heraclitus]

Whatever I really should stop talking about this. History will show how was right by the end of this century. I can't get over this so I think its best I PM for that selfban now.

I just really hope you guys are right about intelligence, otherwise the world will wake up with a really bad hangover from all the cool aid it drank in the last few decades.

[MikeH]

Or just read some better sources and find out how and why the sources you normally read are skewing the data.

[Kitschum]

This is true. I've already admitted I'm currently obsessed with the topic.

Why can't you be a normal Balkanite and obsess about pyramids, Illyrians or Alexander the Great?

However. If racial differences do exist in a hypothetical world wouldn't the above make you uneasy? The unfairness of it all is staggering.

Maybe if I couldn't distance myself from it.

Given your emotional attachment do you think you can still be objective? You do seem to be using the scattergun approach to evidence.

[Heraclitus]

Or just read some better sources and find out how and why the sources you normally read are skewing the data.

LOL See you in a decade my friend.

[Heraclitus]

Maybe if I couldn't distance myself from it.

Given your emotional attachment do you think you can still be objective? You do seem to be using the scattergun approach to evidence.

I started off with no emotional attachment I'm aware of. I developed it over time. I'm no longer objective I admit this.

But are you saying the vast majority people don't have a emotional attachment to egalitarianism in all its forms (class,race,sex,genetic)? They aren't objective either.

And further more, I'm actually paying a very real price for saying the things I say. They don't have to pay anything. This isn't a argument for my beliefs being true, but it is a argument for me being utterly and completley convinced I'm telling the truth.

The same can't be said of many people on the other side especially once one looks at studies at how "diversity" impacts liberal beliefs. Or how the actions of bleeding hearths don't match their words.

[Ming]

Whatever I really should stop talking about this. History will show how was right by the end of this century. I can't get over this so I think its best I PM for that selfban now.

Classic stuff... you must be learning your debating skills from BK. Get proved wrong, and then run and hide.

And the fact that you need a self ban to control yourself kind of says it all.

[Caligastia]

While it is highly unlikely that the brains of different races function equally on average, I think the bigger problem is the assumption that an equal environment will produce equal outcomes. This leads to forced dumbing down to make everyone "equal". Maximizing the potential of each individual should be the aim of education - not racial bean-counting.

[Kitschum]

But are you saying the vast majority people don't have a emotional attachment to egalitarianism in all its forms (class,race,sex,genetic)?

No that's not what I'm saying.

[Heraclitus]

Classic stuff... you must be learning your debating skills from BK. Get proved wrong, and then run and hide.

And the fact that you need a self ban to control yourself kind of says it all.

I wasn't proven wrong.

Haven't you noticed in the past few months that I'm more or less the one providing the majority of citations and defending the simplest explanation? Also this forum is littered with dozens of threads where other people have run of in debates about this with me.

Whenever Its been pointed out (and supported by reliable citations) that I was wrong or a study provided I've acknowledged it (Iran's iq, Testosterone differences ect.)

Kitschum and Albert are the only ones of the opposition that bother fact checking or providing their own citations. DaShi and the other liberal creationists aren't doing any of that.

[Japher]

While it is highly unlikely that the brains of different races function equally on average, I think the bigger problem is the assumption that an equal environment will produce equal outcomes. This leads to forced dumbing down to make everyone "equal". Maximizing the potential of each individual should be the aim of education - not racial bean-counting.

qft

[Heraclitus]

Why can't you be a normal Balkanite and obsess about pyramids, Illyrians or Alexander the Great?

In my worldview the sky is falling. My personal life or the fate of my nationality are dwarfed by the future of mankind as it faces the challenges of genetic engineering and AI on the one hand and societal collapse on the other.

We are so near extinction. Just one poorly programed human level AI and we are paper clipped, just a slightly higher dysgenic pressure and we never develop human level AI.

The great filter is likley somewhere in our near future. This is deadly serious.

[Heraclitus]

While it is highly unlikely that the brains of different races function equally on average, I think the bigger problem is the assumption that an equal environment will produce equal outcomes. This leads to forced dumbing down to make everyone "equal". Maximizing the potential of each individual should be the aim of education - not racial bean-counting.

+1