Those damn ignorant racists at the New York Times!

[Elok]

You didn't know this? Anyway.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African..._United_States

Lets say that 90% are pure SubSaharan Blacks. That leaves us with 0,8 million people, Africa has a population of 1000 million. If we suppose SubSaharan IQ around 80 this means that the 95th percentile is about en pair with Asian IQs. If we take the 98th we beat Jews. Now how large a fraction of the 98th or 95th percentile do you think would leave Africa if they can? Also why go anywhere else but the US if they have a choice? Once you crack the numbers you realize you need relative low percentages of them choosing to do so in order to explain the high performance of US African immigrants.

Is it really that hard to imagine the US gets the best and brightest while those with less resources head for Europe or the Middle East?

...doesn't this pretty much capsize your argument for immigration imposing racial "quotas"? Mind you, I think the idea of denying people based on intelligence, especially when the intelligence isn't even their own but a group aggregate, is monstrous and inhuman. That kind of ****ed-up commitment to a theoretical rosy vision of the human future at the expense of the human present is exactly what's wrong with eugenics. That and the brazen presumption that you have the right to judge people's worth in such a way.

But, if we're only getting their best and brightest, does it matter? By your logic, China and the rest of the east will rapidly become such swell places that their flow of emigrants will ease. We can skim the cream off of Africa as we're doing now and ALL THEIR BRAINS WILL BE OURS MWAHAHA!

[DaShi]

****. IQ heritablity has been confined by scientist as between 0.5 and 0. ****ing 9. All test that correlated with g (general inteligence) show the exact same one stdv variation between Blacks and Whites, and the well know difference between Whites and Asians and Askenazi Jews. People have controled for paternal wealth, IQ, coutnry of origin, ect. And yet a Oriental in China, a Oriental in Brazil and a Oriental in the US will all on average score 105 if you don't hit them on the head with a hammer!

Does your PC cool aid infected brain compute this?

Do you even understand the conversation?

[DaShi]

Whatever I really should stop talking about this.

This, and only this, is the most intelligent thing you've said on this forum.

[DaShi]

Kitschum and Albert are the only ones of the opposition that bother fact checking or providing their own citations. DaShi and the other liberal creationists aren't doing any of that.

Why should I read all of your bogus science? Unlike you, I have far more important things to do.

[KrazyHorse]

I like the fact that Hera is hell-bent on assuming that different populations have different average IQs (on identical tests) but also that they are all gaussian with identical standard deviations

[Heraclitus]

I like the fact that Hera is hell-bent on assuming that different populations have different average IQs (on identical tests) but also that they are all gaussian with identical standard deviations

This is fair criticism, I was using very simplified assumptions for the African sample just to illustrate my point that there are plenty of very inteligent Africans. I was making other gross simplification in that post For example I also ignored that the 1 billion includes millions of Arab, White,Coloreds and Indians since I assumed Africa's populations are under counted. I also just arbitrarily picked a African IQ of 80, thought it could easily be 70 or 85 depending on how strong one takes the biases of the tests be.


Heterogeneous groups are badly nonGaussian, while the relatively homogeneous groups mostly are. As to the stdv, you are right it probably is different(I've seen sources that for example postulate a smaller stdv for East Asians), there however are precious few sources of reliable data at just where stdv lie for all Black African populations.

Also all the business of standard deviations is complicated by many different types of tests being used.

[Heraclitus]

You're not proving anything with this. Look how low Turkey is... you make no mention of Iraq, Lebanon, Syria, Jordan, the Arabian Peninsula, anything... just North Africans. OF COURSE North Africans have black admixture or else the popular misconception that Moors were all black would not exist. There were some black Moors and Berber admixture with black Africans is probably much older than that because Berbers as far back as ancient times had contact with West Africa. And Egypt was briefly ruled by Nubian pharaohs in the 8th century BC.

You are not getting this. Why in the world would I argue those people have larger Black admixture compared to Europeans? But there are other genetic differences that separate most Middle Easterners and Mediterranean peoples from most Euro populations.

Sure the Syrians, Lebanese, Turks and people like Georgians are very close to most European nations, even though for example Turkey slightly stands out on the map one is hard pressed to argue they aren't genetically basically "European". But in the context of this debate its irrelevant since I don't deny differences in IQ among Europeans either.

Also since you bring up the Arab peninsula here is a study that shows Black admixture in Saudi Arabs(7%), as well as general North African admixture and even a small (3%) Indian influence.

[Al B. Sure!]

Hera:

What about 10% of the population of Lisbon in the 16th century was African? Where did those people go? They melded into the population and became indistinguishable from the rest of the Portuguese. There should be a fair amount of admixture in the Portuguese.

Not to mention more admixture from contact with Berbers for 700 years.

[MikeH]

As DaShi said a while back, the counter-evidence against the things you proclaim is so widespread that you have to wilfully overlook the evidence and select your sources to only find things that support what you believe. On that basis, and on the basis that when people do provide contrary evidence you don't read it/listen/understand them, why should we waste our time? You don't want to hear it.

[Heraclitus]

Hera:

What about 10% of the population of Lisbon in the 16th century was African? Where did those people go? They melded into the population and became indistinguishable from the rest of the Portuguese.

This dosen't translate into 10% African admixture among Portuguese Albert. Find a study about their admixture before immigration in recent decades or stfu.

I doubt any study shows more than 2 or 3% admixture in Portugese or Spanish. The Y chromosomes or mDNA may be much higher perhaps on the order of 10 or 20% but this I hope you realize dosen't mean that Portugese are 10 or 20% "African".

Also the genetic of Iberia is complex, that's why studies show wildly divergent numbers. For exampel M1 mtDNA haplogroup is also associated with archaic North African populations not just Subsaharan Africans.

[MikeH]

As an example of you ignoring valid critiques, in the last thread about percentages of different races accepted into universities, Asher posted a quote from the article comments, which totally skewered their findings, showing how their methodology selected the results. He and those criticisms we ignored, and the thread continued for dozens of post.

[Al B. Sure!]

This dosen't translate into 10% African admixture among Portuguese Albert. Find a study about their admixture before immigration in recent decades or stfu.

I doubt any study shows more than 2 or 3% admixture in Portugese or Spanish.

I fail to see how 700 years of Moorish occupation hasn't had an effect. The fact that there was a sizable number of African slaves throughout the 16th and 17th centuries only adds to it.

[Heraclitus]

I fail to see how 700 years of Moorish occupation hasn't had an effect. The fact that there was a sizable number of African slaves throughout the 16th and 17th centuries only adds to it.

Damn why do you always have to respond so quickly?

Anyway I'm not denying that Portuguese and Spanish have some Black admixture. I'm just denying they aren't genetically distinct from North Africans and Middle Easterners.

[Al B. Sure!]

Damn why do you always have to respond so quickly?

Anyway I'm not denying that Portuguese and Spanish have some Black admixture. I'm just denying they aren't genetically distinct from North Africans and Middle Easterners.

Here's something else.

https://www.historians.org/perspectives/issues/1997/9705/9705TEC.CFM

The 140,000 slaves imported into Europe from Africa between 1450 and 1505 were a welcome new labor force in the wake of the Bubonic Plague.

[Heraclitus]

I don't think you realize that those slaves would not have left a proportional genetic heritage even thought that proportion considering Europe had a population of at least 50 million at the time this contribution is negligible.

Under some economic circumstance working slaves to death made sense, this probably wasn't true for the time period in question though.

Without modern vitamin D fortification and antibiotics Black admixture in medieval Europe would be disadvantaged for at least a few generations until their descendants would pick up all the adaptations full blooded Europeans had.

Eugenic breeding patters where prevalent during this time period. Low class people (especially slaves) had fewer children and social mobility was poor. Now I'm sure there where many talented but even for the talented social mobility was very poor in this time period.