$1.2 Billion for bike paths...

[KrazyHorse]

I can run at 25km/hr. For about a minute.

[Al B. Sure!]

I can run at 25km/hr. For about a minute.

So you run a sub-1 minute 400m, KH?

[KrazyHorse]

Not that far from it. I was under 5 on my mile 4 years ago.

[KrazyHorse]

Honestly, though, I've never timed myself on anything shorter than a mile, so I wouldn't be able to state for a fact that that's true.

[Flubber]

Not that far from it. I was under 5 on my mile 4 years ago.

Good ! But irrelevant really. Ben said "running is faster"-- In the context of the average commuter thats simply not true.

I cited a speed that is easily attained by a cyclist over rolling terrain but which even pretty elite runners would not maintain. I did a quickie look and the world 10km road record was 27:02 in 2002-- thats the world record so lets slow them to about 30 minutes for a reasonably good local runner 20km/hr

So since elite runners cannot keep up with the speed which any average commuting cyclist can maintain (on knobby tires) I fail to see how any average runner could.


Ben

I challenge you to a bet -- ten thousand dollars-- Me on a bike and you running-- on my commute to work-- Its about 19 km (I would challenge KH but he merely asserts he runs fast and would never be so foolish as to assert he can outpace a cyclist on a typical commute to a downtown)

[Wezil]

Good work Flubber. You've got Ben pinned down. I'm sure his retraction is forthcoming.

[Ben Kenobi]

Good ! But irrelevant really. Ben said "running is faster"-- In the context of the average commuter thats simply not true.

Over a distance of 5k or less. Longer than that, the advantage is to bicycles, but over short distances, the difference really isn't worth it.

I challenge you to a bet -- ten thousand dollars-- Me on a bike and you running-- on my commute to work-- Its about 19 km (I would challenge KH but he merely asserts he runs fast and would never be so foolish as to assert he can outpace a cyclist on a typical commute to a downtown)

I'd have to get back in training. I don't believe I've ever actually done 19k.

My best 10k result is about 48 minutes, when I did the Sun Run.

[Ben Kenobi]

Ben those sentences are, to be honest, completely retarded.

Those of us who know how to do it properly? You mean like run POSE? What does that mean, Ben?

You've never ran in competition?

And I'd be very impressed by someone who can run faster over long distances on even, urban terrain than a bicyclist. Maybe in a forest or something or over a mere 100 yards that might be true. 99% of the time and 100% under reasonable circumstances, it would not happen.

I'm saying that under 5k, an experienced runner could outpace the average bicyclist. I wouldn't gage someone who does 20km every day on his morning commute as an 'average' bicyclist.

Plus, bicycling is less taxing than running. When I would run to work, I'd get pretty sweaty. Guys that bike would never get like that.

Personally, I would find riding more taxing, but then I don't ride bikes very often at all. I'd probably ski faster on a clear trail than I would ride.

[KrazyHorse]

Over a distance of 5k or less. Longer than that, the advantage is to bicycles, but over short distances, the difference really isn't worth it.



I'd have to get back in training. I don't believe I've ever actually done 19k.

My best 10k result is about 48 minutes, when I did the Sun Run.

at running being faster over 5k. Idiot.

[Ben Kenobi]

I cited a speed that is easily attained by a cyclist over rolling terrain but which even pretty elite runners would not maintain. I did a quickie look and the world 10km road record was 27:02 in 2002-- thats the world record so lets slow them to about 30 minutes for a reasonably good local runner 20km/hr

So you'd have me believe that you are only 3 minutes behind the world record? Doubtful. Time yourself over 10k, I'd be interested to see how close you come to my 48 minutes.

[Ben Kenobi]

at running being faster over 5k. Idiot.

You might want to reread that KH.

Longer than that, the advantage is to bicycles, but over short distances, the difference really isn't worth it.

Care to DanS?

[C0ckney]

Good work Flubber. You've got Ben pinned down. I'm sure his retraction is forthcoming.

[Snotty]

i hope you paid for all those pavements youre running on, otherwise its trespass

[Jon Miller]

I run reasonably often, have even been serious about it a couple times for a few months. I generally would do 10km in ~1 hour. At my best, I probably could do 10km in ~50 minutes (this is when I was doing interval training).

I would take a good runner over an average bike rider at 1km maybe?

Reasonably good local runner probably means one of the better local runners in the area.

JM

[Ben Kenobi]

ben-- should we also have a sidewalk levy? Or a walker charge?

If it were used to fund bike trails only, I'd totally support it.

Your base premise though is that "drivers" pay for roads from registration fees and gas taxes. That is the point for which I sought a cite. I do not dispute that transit is subsidized.

Thank you.

Because only if drivers pay for all the costs of roads can you demand the same for bike trail folks. I have yet to see proof on that point.

Everyone who rides bikes also drives. This isn't a hard concept. Everyone who can afford to ride in Canada can afford to drive a car and have driver registration. The folks who can't afford a car take transit, you won't see them putting 500 dollars into a bike when they can put twice that into a car. The price points are too close to each other.

AS for volunteering my time, I am not exactly sure what I could do exactly. All the bike trails I take are narrow stips of pavement between 4-10 feet wide and they appear to be on a bed of crushed stone/gravel. In 9 years in Calgary I have not seen them be repaved or even patched (I guess the weight loads are not much).

Well in my case, it's brushing back the bush, clearing fallen trees, remarking the trail done once a year for about an afternoon with a chainsaw and flagging tape.

As for paying, I would stack up my tax contribution against my usage of public resources any day of the week so I make no apologies for how much I give government, thanks. That said, if there was a bike trail improvement fund, I would likely contribute

I would support a voluntary levy for a bike trail improvement fund. I think this would be a rather sensible policy which would ensure funds for trail maintenance. Same with a trail levy on everyone who uses the trail.

Since they are commuter routes, people are getting on and off at many different places and bikes and walkers are both able to go on and off the trails at various points.

Put a box, have someone empty it out at the end of each day. Label the box, "trail maintenance fund", and have at it.