Lesbians leading the way in eugenics

[Heraclitus]

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/0...ent/index.html

(CNN) -- A nearly 25-year study concluded that children raised in lesbian households were psychologically well-adjusted and had fewer behavioral problems than their peers.

The study, published Monday in the journal Pediatrics, followed 78 lesbian couples who conceived through sperm donations and assessed their children's well-being through a series of questionnaires and interviews.

Gartrell started the study in 1986. She recruited subjects through announcements in bookstores, lesbian events and newspapers throughout metro Boston, Massachusetts; San Francisco, California, and Washington.

The mothers were interviewed during pregnancy or the insemination process, and additionally when the children were 2, 5, 10 and 17 years old. Those children are now 18 to 23 years old.

Educated and well of lesbian couples calculatingly choosing the sperm donor on criterias like height and SAT scores and then exposing the resulting kid to the horrors of regular library visits and life in Massachusetts works better than a poor dim single mom living off welfare after following her gina tingles and getting preggers with an ex felon?

Who would have guessed?


This is awesome. I think the gay community might just be the ticket to reverse dysgenic decline. Not just lesbians though, succesfull gay men could buy those expensive ivy league eggs and have them carried to term by poor third world women.

I am however less enthusiastic about gays adopting, but even so most kids avilable for adoption are damaged goods, if they reproduce less. Come to think of it this needs to be enthusiastically supported.

If we remove the limits on how much people can be payed for their sperm or eggs we may just ensure humanity dosen't descend into barbarism. Homosexuals get to have kids and society benefits! Win win.

[Hauldren Collider]

Eugenics?

WTF is wrong with you?!

[Maniac]

Your logic fails you in this thread: You seem to say all lesbians are well-educated and rich. You seem to say there is a very strong correlation between intelligence and wealth.

[Ben Kenobi]

Better health through smoking.

[Heraclitus]

Your logic fails you in this thread: You seem to say all lesbians are well-educated and rich. You seem to say there is a very strong correlation between intelligence and wealth.

I'm saying the lesbians in the study where probably well off.

[Heraclitus]

Eugenics?

WTF is wrong with you?!

What is wrong with voluntary eugenics?

Or are you saying single women and lesbians choosing donors who are tall, good looking, healthy and have high SAT scores aren't practicing it? For that matter don't people who prefer to marry and reprouduce with beautifull women practice it?

The mothers were interviewed during pregnancy or the insemination process, and additionally when the children were 2, 5, 10 and 17 years old. Those children are now 18 to 23 years old.

Children from lesbian families rated higher in social, academic and total competence. They also showed lower rates in social, rule-breaking, aggressive problem behavior.

The involvement of mothers may be a contributing factor, in addition to the fact that the pregnancies were planned, Gartrell said.

yeah right, even when studies show that kids rased by single dads do better than kids raised by single moms?

[Hauldren Collider]

THE PROBLEM WITH VOLUNTARY EUGENICS IS THAT ONCE ESTABLISHED AS A SYSTEM THE VOLUNTARY IS PLACED IN MASSIVE SARCASM QUOTES

[Ben Kenobi]

The real question is whether eugenics even works.

Intelligence isn't 100 percent heritable.

[Heraclitus]

THE PROBLEM WITH VOLUNTARY EUGENICS IS THAT ONCE ESTABLISHED AS A SYSTEM THE VOLUNTARY IS PLACED IN MASSIVE SARCASM QUOTES

Are you saying people who are paying tens of thousands of dollars more than the legislated max limit for eggs from women with very high SATs aren't praciticing volutnary eugenics?

[Maniac]

I'm saying the lesbians in the study where probably well off.

So you're saying the behaviour of children of lesbian couples is not due the lesbians, but because of the economic factor, that the study didn't take that factor into account?

And you didn't address the second point: do you think there is a link between intelligence and wealth which lasts longer than one generation?

[Heraclitus]

The real question is whether eugenics even works.

Intelligence isn't 100 percent heritable.

For eugenics to work inteligence should be 100% heritable?
I think having a heritablitiy of 0.7-0.9 works fine too than you very much.

[Al B. Sure!]

HC, being a self-described elitist, shouldn't be looking too negatively on eugenics.


Anyway, Heraclitus, I find it interesting how the study implies the kids grow up to have better lives in Lesbian households (a conclusion with obvious political implications) when the true reason for being well-adjusted is probably because they got to pick their sperm donors...

I highly doubt any of them were like "Yes, we'll take the donor with the family history of depression and drug abuse"

[Heraclitus]

So you're saying the behaviour of children of lesbian couples is not due the lesbians, but because of the economic factor, that the study didn't take that factor into account?

Yes. I'm saying that couples or wealthy single women who choose the sperm donors just as discriminatly as lesbians would also do well.

And you didn't address the second point: do you think there is a link between intelligence and wealth which lasts longer than one generation?

There is a link between IQ and wealth that lasts more than one generation. Seriusly haven't you ever heard of a thing called parental SES?


Anyway the effect rapidly diminshes due to regression towards the mean.


Some groups like the Askenazi Jews are fortunate to have both wealth and a higher mean (somewhere between 109 and 120, BTW they need to breed more).

Rich people
Rich people's kids (sometimes if the guy marries a throphy wife, like Hilton)
Rich people's grandchildren



Eugenic lesbians and gays
Jews

[Al B. Sure!]

A eugenics program that favors the Jews. Now I've seen everything!

[Ben Kenobi]

One,

What is intelligence? Are the SATs an accurate measure of intelligence?

Two,

Assuming we have an accurate measure of intelligence, SATs change over time. If we are selecting based of a standard that no longer exists why would it be helpful to select our children based on these characteristics.

Three,

Intelligence isn't even the highest component. Wealth is far more likely to produce kids that score well on the SATs. So is it worth sacrificing wealth for the best kid? No. You would be better off taking someone who was rich, and not particularly bright and having kids with them.

Four,

You increase the chance for massive defects wrt to insemination. Is it worth the chance for a marginal increase vs a catastrophic loss?

Five,

Wouldn't a husband and wife having kids naturally do better over time? Yes, the kids may still come out ok, but it's a higher hurdle for lesbians. Will their kids go on to have healthy families too?

Six,

What's in it for the guys to participate in a sperm bank?